Buying Retail (1 Viewer)

[dtc]

But then if you look at how Walmart helps small town economies, you also have to take that into consideration

No, you don't.

Walmart hurts small town economies except that it provides more ways for people to buy toxic, plastic junk they don't need from our enemies.

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

No, you don't.

Walmart hurts small town economies except that it provides more ways for people to buy toxic, plastic junk they don't need from our enemies.

It helps small town economies in the same way that proscription opioids helps small town pain management

 

[DaveXA]

I don't shop at Walmart. I haven't been in one in years.

We have choices and I choose to try and avoid Walmart's policies that rob from the poor to give to the rich. Complaining about it starts a dialogue and educates people as to the choices they make.

Yes, it does, but the anger is misdirected imo. My point is that if it's not Walmart, it's going to be someone else running their business model. They're hardly the only big business that runs the way they do. Like I said, I'm not a fan of their business model, but what they do works for them for the most part and people still work there and shop there regardless.

I mean, a better response would be that this is a good opportunity to show why single payer or universal health care is a good idea. If companies avoid making people full-time because of health care costs, then solving the health care problem solves the part-time problem because they don't have to worry about the added cost for full-time vs part-time.

I'd rather shop at some other retailers for other reasons, so I seldom shop at Walmart, but when we were a young family pinching pennies and Walmart was the best and most economical choice for us at the time, we shopped there frequently. Our situation is different now with 2 of my kids in college and 2 in H.S. and there are more options for us closer to home, so I've been to Walmart maybe twice in the last 3 years or so.

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

Yes, it does, but the anger is misdirected imo. My point is that if it's not Walmart, it's going to be someone else running their business model. They're hardly the only big business that runs the way they do. Like I said, I'm not a fan of their business model, but what they do works for them for the most part and people still work there and shop there regardless.

I mean, a better response would be that this is a good opportunity to show why single payer or universal health care is a good idea. If companies avoid making people full-time because of health care costs, then solving the health care problem solves the part-time problem because they don't have to worry about the added cost for full-time vs part-time.

I'd rather shop at some other retailers for other reasons, so I seldom shop at Walmart, but when we were a young family pinching pennies and Walmart was the best and most economical choice for us at the time, we shopped there frequently. Our situation is different now with 2 of my kids in college and 2 in H.S. and there are more options for us closer to home, so I've been to Walmart maybe twice in the last 3 years or so.

Going back to the opioid analogy, this is essentially what Johnson & Johnson is arguing- and it’s not a strong argument
I bust a student for having their phone out in class and their response is usually something like “well she has her phone out too”
My reply of course is ‘what does that have to do with your breaking the rules’?

 

[DaveXA]

No, you don't.

Walmart hurts small town economies except that it provides more ways for people to buy toxic, plastic junk they don't need from our enemies.

I suppose, but I think it's inevitable, whether it's Walmart or some other conglomerate, the face of retailing is changing, and a lot of that can be attributed to the way we shop today. Small towns and rural areas are going to be the ones left behind in this economy unless we come up with solutions for those areas. I mean, distribution and competitive pricing and service are all challenges when you start getting out to those areas.

Brick and mortar stores remaining profitable in those areas is a challenge. I don't have all of the answers, but I think talking about and implementing ideas rather than whining about the Walmarts of the world would go farther imo.

 

[DaveXA]

Going back to the opioid analogy, this is essentially what Johnson & Johnson is arguing- and it’s not a strong argument
I bust a student for having their phone out in class and their response is usually something like “well she has her phone out too”
My reply of course is ‘what does that have to do with your breaking the rules’?

Agreed, and if they're breaking the rules, they should be held accountable. But, if our laws allows the Walmarts in the world to avoid paying taxes and hiring part time employees when they could otherwise hire full-time, then we need to consider that our laws are enabling our corporations to have what amounts to immoral, but not illegal business models. If a company sees a loophole to avoid taxes, they will expect their tax accountants to exploit the loophole. If a company thinks it's more economically viable to hire mostly part-time staff, they will do it to the extent that makes sense for their business model.

I think the guardrails for the corporate world are really lax and our laws have not done enough to protect the labor force. I don't think there are easy answers, and just getting mad about someone shopping at Walmart is sorta like getting mad at the border wall and going down to the border and screaming at the wall. It doesn't really do much good.

I do think that solving the health care problem will solve some of the part-time vs full-time issues. Raising the minimum wage or establishing a living wage could be a solution. That's a more challenging issue. I'm not sure Congress is up to the task. With the clown show inside the beltway, it's gonna be tough to change the corporate environment to a substantial and meaningful degree.

 

[UncleTrvlingJim]

So, I basically agree with the statement that taxpayers are subsidizing corporations like Walmart that pay their employees very little. However, I'm starting to lean more and more away from the minimum wage.

I think the less interference in the market the better, so I'm starting to lean more and more towards straight up wealth redistribution. Get rid of food stamps, minimum wage, and all the other tons of government programs that are less efficient than straight up sending everyone a check. Set tax rates appropriately. Give tax breaks to companies that have less than X% living below the poverty level and another tax break where executives make less than some basic multiplier of the median wage, and call it a day.

 

[dtc]

I suppose, but I think it's inevitable, whether it's Walmart or some other conglomerate, the face of retailing is changing, and a lot of that can be attributed to the way we shop today. Small towns and rural areas are going to be the ones left behind in this economy unless we come up with solutions for those areas. I mean, distribution and competitive pricing and service are all challenges when you start getting out to those areas.

Brick and mortar stores remaining profitable in those areas is a challenge. I don't have all of the answers, but I think talking about and implementing ideas rather than whining about the Walmarts of the world would go farther imo.

To be more successful, the abandoned people out in the middle of nowhere need to move or quit buying so much disposable junk and crap. Hell, the stereotypical middle American has no savings to speak of, little equity, a job with no pension, an un/underfunded 401k and no mechanism other than SS upon which to live when they can't work.

That same stereotypical American has 2 car payments, 4 cell phone bills, and a house full of crap they don't need that they pay for on 29% via credit cards and a good number have no health insurance.

What we need is less immediate gratification, less disposable crap and more savings.


Walmart is not helping.

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

Agreed, and if they're breaking the rules, they should be held accountable. But, if our laws allows the Walmarts in the world to avoid paying taxes and hiring part time employees when they could otherwise hire full-time, then we need to consider that our laws are enabling our corporations to have what amounts to immoral, but not illegal business models. If a company sees a loophole to avoid taxes, they will expect their tax accountants to exploit the loophole. If a company thinks it's more economically viable to hire mostly part-time staff, they will do it to the extent that makes sense for their business model.

I think the guardrails for the corporate world are really lax and our laws have not done enough to protect the labor force. I don't think there are easy answers, and just getting mad about someone shopping at Walmart is sorta like getting mad at the border wall and going down to the border and screaming at the wall. It doesn't really do much good.

I would agree with this completely and it is up to us to make corporations be good ‘citizens’
And while that is most efficiently/broadly done at the ballot box
It can also be very effective if enough people vote with their wallets and voice displeasure- whether to friends/family or board members- at the way corporations operate

 

[DaveXA]

To be more successful, the abandoned people out in the middle of nowhere need to move or quit buying so much disposable junk and crap. Hell, the stereotypical middle American has no savings to speak of, little equity, a job with no pension, an un/underfunded 401k and no mechanism other than SS upon which to live when they can't work.

That same stereotypical American has 2 car payments, 4 cell phone bills, and a house full of crap they don't need that they pay for on 29% via credit cards and a good number have no health insurance.

What we need is less immediate gratification, less disposable crap and more savings.


Walmart is not helping.

Yeah, I agree with you there, but that train left the station decades ago. There's really no putting the genie back in the bottle at this point. There will be a day of reckoning though. Sooner or later.

 

[zeetes]

You must not shop at Walmart. Say what you want about Walmart, but they get you out in a hurry. I can't remember ever being asked by them about some extra thing at checkout. If you just want a couple of things you can just use self-checkout and you don't even have to talk to anyone at all. They don't even want a signature unless your total is above a certain amount. They even generally avoid helping you if you're clearly wondering around looking for something -- who can beat that?

...I pretty much just shop at Walmart and HEB but when I go into the local ACE hardware they try and guilt me into rounding up to the nearest dollar for whatever their cause is and I usually submit. And when I'm looking for something ACE employees sometimes even bother me, asking if they could help and all. NO THANKS, I want to find it myself and your extra bit of customer service doesn't make up for your checkout guilt!

i miss heb

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

So, I basically agree with the statement that taxpayers are subsidizing corporations like Walmart that pay their employees very little. However, I'm starting to lean more and more away from the minimum wage.

I think the less interference in the market the better, so I'm starting to lean more and more towards straight up wealth redistribution. Get rid of food stamps, minimum wage, and all the other tons of government programs that are less efficient than straight up sending everyone a check. Set tax rates appropriately. Give tax breaks to companies that have less than X% living below the poverty level and another tax break where executives make less than some basic multiplier of the median wage, and call it a day.

It seems like this would just spur companies to ramp up automation and dump more workers

 

[Optimus Prime]

Has anyone seen the documentary Walmart The Cost of Low Prices?

Goes over a lot of this stuff

The worst thing is when a Walmart comes to town destroys the local businesses then a few years later the Walmart shuts down

 

[DaveXA]

I would agree with this completely and it is up to us to make corporations be good ‘citizens’
And while that is most efficiently/broadly done at the ballot box
It can also be very effective if enough people vote with their wallets and voice displeasure- whether to friends/family or board members- at the way corporations operate

Great point. And I'd normally agree with you, but it seems like some of the past protests have been somewhat counterproductive. The problem is, our poisoned politics has made it such that if conservatives perceive a protest or movement is associated with the left, their response is actually to do the opposite.

Here's how it might happen.

Protester - "Hey everyone! Walmart is robbing our workers of their dignity by not employing them full-time and by paying them far less than a living wage! We need to vote with our wallets and shop elsewhere!"

Random Conservative watching protest on tv - "Durr, I'm gonna stick it to those leftist democrats and buy even more sheet. How you like dem apples?"

The result? Walmart gets more business. Weird how that works. Of course I haven't mention those who just don't care about politics and just keep right on shopping as they always have. The point is that people across all spectrums need to be a part of the solution to have the desired effect the protesters are shooting for.

 

[dtc]

Great point. And I'd normally agree with you, but it seems like some of the past protests have been somewhat counterproductive. The problem is, our poisoned politics has made it such that if conservatives perceive a protest or movement is associated with the left, their response is actually to do the opposite.

Here's how it might happen.

Protester - "Hey everyone! Walmart is robbing our workers of their dignity by not employing them full-time and by paying them far less than a living wage! We need to vote with our wallets and shop elsewhere!"

Random Conservative watching protest on tv - "Durr, I'm gonna stick it to those leftist democrats and buy even more shirt. How you like dem apples?"

The result? Walmart gets more business. Weird how that works. Of course I haven't mention those who just don't care about politics and just keep right on shopping as they always have. The point is that people across all spectrums need to be a part of the solution to have the desired effect the protesters are shooting for.

Well, Modern Republicans are so stupid they'd eat glass if Trump told them to and drink gasoline if it made Beto sad.

That will eventually end, but we're still going to have 150 million penniless folks who have houses full of old gameboys and no ability to feed themselves in old age and Walmart is partly to blame.