CA Gov....”No large gatherings through at least the summer.” (1 Viewer)

[jmalon3]

Dr. David Katz: Coronavirus vaccine or herd immunity are only ways life can fully return to normal

Dr. David Katz, the founding director of the Yale-Griffin Prevention Research Center in Connecticut, has warned that while social distancing is helping to mitigate the spread of the coronavirus, it is also preventing the development of the "herd immunity" needed by the public to resume their...

www.foxnews.com

This guy is a lot smarter doctor than I am..
-Dartmouth
-Albert einstein university
-Yale

HERD IMMUNITY. Is key. This is what I have been saying in the beginning

Can't stay and hide forever. Crushes the nation!

I’m sure he is pretty smart, and in most cases herd immunity is a good way to control these things, but this virus is different. The symptoms are all over the place. They’re different from person to person,we don’t know the long term effects they may have on people. Until we know more about the long term effects of this virus, herd immunity will have to wait. Just for example, initial information was early intubation due to what looked like ARDS. Just this past week or so, the new information coming out says to only intubate as a last resort and allow time for the patient’s bodies acclimate to the change in oxygen demand. So we can’t even treat the current virus well enough to safely allow for herd immunity.

 

[Pocket Hercules]

Most people have pointed to those two options. However, what is the human cost (numbers wise) of 300 mil people getting to that point? Are you willing to risk your family or friends to try? This thing is about to take all other causes of death in the US on a daily basis.

Yep, already have. We're doing our part. We are up to speed on the virus and its real danger to us given the present condition of our health. We'll do what is best for us. You do what is best for you. I won't be knocking on my grandparent's door, nor will I be knocking on yours. I won't be covering my face, but if you want to, I think that's just peachy.

Most everyone who is going to get this virus is going to get it no matter what elected officials nor you nor I do to prevent it. Most everyone who is going to die from this virus or a mutation of it is going to die no matter what elected officials nor you nor I do to prevent it. Flattening the curve was important, and staying home for a while has been important. Moving forward to strategically get our economy rolling again is also important, and we're getting pretty close to seeing that happen. You can downvote all you want, but that's what's going to happen. It's already happening here in CA regardless of what Gavin Newsom says or wants. Life will go on. Some people will die. We all die sometime from something.

 

[StudioSaint]

...Moving forward to strategically get our economy rolling again ...It's already happening here in CA...regardless of... Governor Newsom...

Where exactly in CA do you claim you live and what do you claim to be seeing that says the state wide orders are being defied at any significant scale?

I live in Los Angeles and call total BS on what you're saying.

I haven't seen any reports of significant numbers of people defying the last set of state, county and city orders that were issued. I'm sure some are and will continue to disregard the orders currently in place, but the idea of a ground swell of defiance is total BS.

 

[Pocket Hercules]

Where exactly in CA do you claim you live and what do you claim to be seeing that says the state wide orders are being defied at any significant scale?

I live in Los Angeles and call total BS on what you're saying.

I haven't seen any reports of significant numbers of people defying the last set of state, county and city orders that were issued. I'm sure some are and will continue to disregard the orders currently in place, but the idea of a ground swell of defiance is total BS.

I live not too far from LA, and let's just say that I have been seeing a lot more people from LA and Santa Barbara over the past two weeks than I had in the two weeks prior. The four best days of business I have had since stay-at-home orders were put in place have occurred over the last eight days. It's a pretty good sample size, and it's random enough to be meaningful. People are traveling, whether you have heard reports or not.

 

[dtc]

Dr. David Katz: Coronavirus vaccine or herd immunity are only ways life can fully return to normal

Dr. David Katz, the founding director of the Yale-Griffin Prevention Research Center in Connecticut, has warned that while social distancing is helping to mitigate the spread of the coronavirus, it is also preventing the development of the "herd immunity" needed by the public to resume their...

www.foxnews.com

This guy is a lot smarter doctor than I am..
-Dartmouth
-Albert einstein university
-Yale

HERD IMMUNITY. Is key. This is what I have been saying in the beginning

Can't stay and hide forever. Crushes the nation!

I don't think you're grasping the nuanced statements he's made and I don't know what sort of jackass doctor would be so flippant as to say "all we're doing is changing the dates and we don't want to do that."

It's a stupid statement. Changing the date means delaying death. it means prolonging life. The longer we prevent deaths the more chance we have for herd immunity to take hold and for our medical system to sustain the ability to properly care for the afflicted.

In simple fact, if he is in fact arguing we should not take social distancing seriously because speeding up the herd immunity is preferable than the alternative then I have no idea what sort of person or doctor he must be.

The loss of millions of lives over the next year or so would be every bit as disastrous for our nation and its economy than social distancing and temporary closures.

 

[StudioSaint]

I live not too far from LA,

What city and county? There's only one reason to be vague, unless you live in a city with just a population of you.

...I have been seeing a lot more people from LA and Santa Barbara...

How do you know where the people you are seeing are from?

The four best days of business I have had since stay-at-home orders were put in place have occurred over the last eight days.

It's obvious you have been allowed to stay open during the stay at home order, which means people are allowed to go to your place of business. Why are you trying to falsely portray that as people violating and defying the current orders that are in place?

It's a pretty good sample size, and it's random enough to be meaningful.

What was your average number of customers per day before the shelter in place, during the shelter in place up to two weeks ago and during the past two weeks? There's only one reason to be vague about that.

People are traveling, whether you have heard reports or not.

So now it's "people are traveling" instead of your original claim of "people are already ignoring government issued orders."

People have always been allowed to travel to any business that is allowed to be open. There's nothing defiant or new about that.

Seems like you have an exaggerated perspective.

 

[Pocket Hercules]

What city and county? There's only one reason to be vague, unless you live in a city with just a population of you.
How do you know where the people you are seeing are from?
It's obvious you have been allowed to stay open during the stay at home order, which means people are allowed to go to your place of business. Why are you trying to falsely portray that as people violating and defying the current orders that are in place?
What was your average number of customers per day before the shelter in place, during the shelter in place up to two weeks ago and during the past two weeks? There's only one reason to be vague about that.
So now it's "people are traveling" instead of your original claim of "people are already ignoring government issued orders."

People have always been allowed to travel to any business that is allowed to be open. There's nothing defiant or new about that.

Seems like you have an exaggerated perspective.

If I named my place of business and then went on about the manner in which people are living their lives the way they see fit, for business or for pleasure, that wouldn't be good for business. I know where my guests are from because I talk to them, and because many of them give me their addresses. Maybe 5-10% are wearing masks. I had been seeing around 50 people per day, but we're much closer to 100 now.

That's going to have to suffice for you...or not. Fine by me either way.

 

[SaintsSpringBayou]

What city and county? There's only one reason to be vague, unless you live in a city with just a population of you.
How do you know where the people you are seeing are from?
It's obvious you have been allowed to stay open during the stay at home order, which means people are allowed to go to your place of business. Why are you trying to falsely portray that as people violating and defying the current orders that are in place?
What was your average number of customers per day before the shelter in place, during the shelter in place up to two weeks ago and during the past two weeks? There's only one reason to be vague about that.
So now it's "people are traveling" instead of your original claim of "people are already ignoring government issued orders."

People have always been allowed to travel to any business that is allowed to be open. There's nothing defiant or new about that.

Seems like you have an exaggerated perspective.

I spend my time between SFV and Long Beach and I can say for certain I've seen LESS people, especially driving on the 405 which is a good barometer of population movement. Matter of fact, Saturday evening the 405 North was mostly empty, steady 80MPH all the way up to SFV. 3-4 weeks ago, that wouldn't have been possible, still less people, but not as empty. The only thing I heard was there was a mild protest in Orange County, but OC is an entirely different animal.

Most of these protests that are making the news are just products of astroturfing and not the grassroots movement they want you to believe. I can provide proof is anyone cares enough, but this is a football forum and to be honest, it would be nice if we can stick to that.

I see a lot of members that I respect saying very myopic and callous things and I'd rather not remember them for that, though I wish them health and safety. I can understand how this situation and uncertainty can make people say and think things against their better judgement. Personally, I'm not okay with losing people so businesses can earn a buck and before anyone says "but poverty" - 1) there's no logic in that argument, just like the "automobile accident/death" argument, and I work with the homeless population a few months out of the year 2) if we can spend over $12 billion on dud F35's and millions to bail out banks, wall street crooks, billion dollar companies that can't manage their books (and still lay people off), we can certainly assist our citizens for 2-4 months without losing any sleep. But if you still feel like it's okay to sacrifice 1-3% of our population, then let's start with your loved ones first because I'm tired of losing mine. This is my last post until the season starts, if it ever does. Frankly, I don't care if it does. I just want people (even the dumb ones) to live.

 

[StudioSaint]

If I named my place of business and then went on about the manner in which people are living their lives the way they see fit, for business or for pleasure, that wouldn't be good for business.

I didn't ask you to name your place of business. I did even ask what business you are in.

I did ask you a lot of other relevant questions that wouldn't reveal your personal or business identity. It wouldn't reveal anything personal about your clients either.

I don't know why you're being so evasive, but it seems it's because you can't support your initial claim that Californians are significantly defying the currently issued orders from the state, counties and cities.

I know where my guests are from because I talk to them, and because many of them give me their addresses. Maybe 5-10% are wearing masks. I had been seeing around 50 people per day, but we're much closer to 100 now.

Not surprised on the face masks. That's been happening this whole time. It may be the nature of your business that leads to such a small percentage of people wearing masks. When you only had 50 people coming in they were probably wearing masks around the same low percentage, so maybe it's not really a change in the behavior of your typical customer.

Either way, all your personal experience shows is that your business has doubled over the last two weeks and maybe fewer of you customers are wearing masks.

It's not a statistically large enough or diverse enough sample size to support your original claim of a populous defiance of the government orders here in California.

Like I said before, your perspective seems to be exaggerated. The more details you provide, the more that seems to be the case.

 

[StudioSaint]

I spend my time between SFV and Long Beach and I can say for certain I've seen LESS people, especially driving on the 405 which is a good barometer of population movement. Matter of fact, Saturday evening the 405 North was mostly empty, steady 80MPH all the way up to SFV. 3-4 weeks ago, that wouldn't have been possible, still less people, but not as empty. The only thing I heard was there was a mild protest in Orange County, but OC is an entirely different animal.

Most of these protests that are making the news are just products of astroturfing and not the grassroots movement they want you to believe. I can provide proof is anyone cares enough, but this is a football forum and to be honest, it would be nice if we can stick to that.

I see a lot of members that I respect saying very myopic and callous things and I'd rather not remember them for that, though I wish them health and safety. I can understand how this situation and uncertainty can make people say and think things against their better judgement. Personally, I'm not okay with losing people so businesses can earn a buck and before anyone says "but poverty" - 1) there's no logic in that argument, just like the "automobile accident/death" argument, and I work with the homeless population a few months out of the year 2) if we can spend over $12 billion on dud F35's and millions to bail out banks, wall street crooks, billion dollar companies that can't manage their books (and still lay people off), we can certainly assist our citizens for 2-4 months without losing any sleep. But if you still feel like it's okay to sacrifice 1-3% of our population, then let's start with your loved ones first because I'm tired of losing mine. This is my last post until the season starts, if it ever does. Frankly, I don't care if it does. I just want people (even the dumb ones) to live.

Sorry to hear you have lost loved ones. So far, I've been fortunate not to lose anyone I know. I know that will likely change all too soon.

I hear you. I live on the southern rim of the SFV on one of the main rush hour surface streets used to travel south over the mountains from the SFV. Rush hour traffic has dwindled every week and is now less than 20% of what it originally was. It's nearly empty outside of rush hour.

I hear you and agree with everything else you said, including sticking to football in this forum. I'll do my best to stick to football from now on.

 

[V Chip]

Most everyone who is going to get this virus is going to get it no matter what elected officials nor you nor I do to prevent it. Most everyone who is going to die from this virus or a mutation of it is going to die no matter what elected officials nor you nor I do to prevent it.

This is patently, 100% false.

 

[brandon8283]

It's kinda funny how often hundreds and hundreds of experts can be ignored when you find the one or two who agrees with your existing opinion.

*****screams in climate change*****

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

Through the save lives vs save economy argument aside for a second since purposely crasging the ecobomy will cost lives too.

What gives someone the right to tell you what to do with your own body and property? The choice to quarantine or not should be left to the individual. Not state mandated.

so you should be able to drive your car through a full playground?

 

[No2DC]

https://ethics.harvard.edu/files/center-for-ethics/files/roadmaptopandemicresilience_final_0.pdf

 

[Goatman Saint]

https://ethics.harvard.edu/files/center-for-ethics/files/roadmaptopandemicresilience_final_0.pdf

And look at the top 4 things that is tells need to be in place. Testing, testing, testing, testing, 5 communication and organization, 6 tracking. Hard to do 5 or 6 without mass rollout of a quick effective 1,2,3,4

Or we could just go by gut and instinct