Cardell Hayes manslaughter conviction of Will Smith overturned by Supreme Court (2 Viewers)

[zeetes]

you can't be tried for the same crime twice (Double Jeopardy) if you are convicted or found guilty. A hung jury or a vacated conviction is different, because their technically has been no resolution to the case, its still open on the original charge.

as long as, my zero knowledge of the law, i feel someone being shot in the back, is illegal.

 

[DreadedOne]

You shoot someone 8 times, 7 in the back, the intent to kill was definitely there..

Intent to kill was not there prior to Smith reaching for a gun...based on what I've heard and seen. You begin to reach for a gun and the right to defend yourself kicks in. The gray area is, did hayes get out of his vehicle brandishing a weapon ... if so, which is sounds like it, poor decision, warranting manslaughter for instigating/escalating the issue...I just think given the details, that warrants 5 years as served. 25 years for a crime that doesn't indicate he is a continued threat to the community isn't warranted from a logical perspective. Emotionally, maybe it does...everyone loves Will Smith so give him life. But logically, he doesn't seem to be a threat any longer to community and I suspect will never make this mistake again.

 

[IceHot]

Both could've. But the moral of the story is if you have a gun, bring it with you.

There is no moral to the story. There is just the way this event has played out. Someone is dead, someone was in jail and is now out but may be back in jail.

*Im not disagreeing with your opinion, just the moral lesson part which can easily polarize us away from the OP.

 

[DreadedOne]

as long as, my zero knowledge of the law, i feel someone being shot in the back, is illegal.

If someone tells you they are going to get a gun after being aggressive and belligerent, you may have only moments to determine the legitimacy of the threat and defend yourself or find you have lost your life.

Edit: my comment above isn't specific to this case, it was only in response to the generic scenario of someone being shot in the back in general is illegal. So please don't take it out of this context and apply it only to this case. Say for instance someone is turning away from you to assault someone else, shooting them in the back may be a valid option.

 

[zeetes]

If someone tells you they are going to get a gun after being aggressive and belligerent, you might want to consider defending yourself or find you have lost your life.

i have a .45 in my car also, a concealed permit. i am not anti gun, that is for sure.

 

[Alaina]

Plessy v. Ferguson, which was the preeminent SCOTUS case based around a biracial street car passenger who refused to give up his seat in New Orleans to protest La. segregated seating regulation law, was taken to the Supreme Court and who upheld "separate but equal" clause which was derived from a narrowing interpretation of the 13th and 14th Amendments. This landmark legal decision, affirmed many Southern states already pre-existing laws enacted during Reconstruction to limit the freedoms, like right to vote, right to assembly, in certain cases, some forms of freedom of speech and grandfather clause exemptions and Plessy/Ferguson also set the template for state-sanctioned segregation laws in all facets of public sphere for the next 100 years, until it was legally thrown out and delegitimized by Brown vs Board of Education and began to be politically or federally enforced in late 1950's/early-mid 1960's increasingly.

Then there was the Dred Scott decision

The SCOTUS upholding a California state law, affirmed and signed off by future liberal SCOTUS chief Earl Warren, then California state AG, deporting many loyal Japanese-Americans living in West Coast due to bigoted and racist-paranoia that Japanese military intelligence used its Magik coding intelligence from sympathetic Japanese Americans in any possible West Coast invasion scenario into LA, SF, or in the PNW states or even into Alaska or the Aleutians, which was the scene of quite a few notable, bloody cold conflicts where a combined US-Canadian ground forces successfully managed to drive out the Japanese military incursions by January 1943. These deportations order resetting thousands of loyal Japanese-Americans and Japanese-Canadians into camps shortly after Pearl Harbor, IMHO, are some of the worst, most egregious, horrific miscarriages of justice that was considered and then allowed to be perpetuated in American history and considering our historical treatment of racial and indigenous minorities as well as their legal and philosophical justifications or assents, that's an extremely high barrier to cross.

I mentioned prior to the 50s. I think public attitude towards civil rights changed markedly since WW2 and the Nazi regime highlighted how terrible we treat our fellow humans.

 

[Dago]

*Man gets shot in the back 7 times*

"Its his fault....he should have de-escalated the situation. Besides it was just a mistake." (Paraphrased obviously)


Victim shaming brought to a whole new level.

 

[Stew 2.0]

So quick to point out what won’t work perhaps you’d like to enlighten us with what will work given your professional Background Bethlehem California

As of now what has been attempted is not working. I'm not a gun activist by any means. I don't think banning AR-15's or other semi auto rifles will solve anything either. Just in this case with Smith he was killed with a simple handgun. Yes I am a police Officer but I actually only own one gun that was not issued to me by my department that is in my personal vehicle. My girlfriend owns one also that she keeps in her car and mine is a .380 Glock, hers a .38 revolver. I have my service handgun, Ar-15, and shotgun all issued by my department that stay in my department issued unit when off duty. I don't bring them in my house because I have small kids and if i do bring my sidearm inside I keep it in the level 3 retention holster and in a safe.
I don't know what will work but gun laws are not working and are not the end all be all answer either is all I can say. If you have all the answers then share but don't come at me with tons of attitude or disdain for pointing out that the current system isn't working if you yourself have no answers.

 

[Stew 2.0]

*Man gets shot in the back 7 times*

"Its his fault....he should have de-escalated the situation. Besides it was just a mistake." (Paraphrased obviously)


Victim shaming brought to a whole new level.

Right I did not understand that either! It was as if they were blaming Will for his own death. He was shot several times in the back then his wife also shot! This dude had all intent to kill both of them.

 

[Madmarsha]

If someone tells you they are going to get a gun after being aggressive and belligerent, you may have only moments to determine the legitimacy of the threat and defend yourself or find you have lost your life.

I know I wasn't on the jury and don't know what else I may have heard to change my opinion. But knowing what little I do know, here's how I may have thought being a juror on the case: Will Smith died leaning into his car draped over his steering wheel. Now, in the time it was taking for him to admittedly go for his own gun as he said he was, Cardell Hughes could have taken cover and/or fled the scene to his own safety in defense of his life. Instead, he shot two people multiple times both of whom were unarmed at the time.

 

[Stew 2.0]

I know I wasn't on the jury and don't know what else I may have heard to change my opinion. But knowing what little I do know, here's how I may have thought being a juror on the case: Will Smith died leaning into his car draped over his steering wheel. Now, in the time it was taking for him to admittedly go for his own gun as he said he was, Cardell Hughes could have taken cover and/or fled the scene to his own safety in defense of his life. Instead, he shot two people multiple times both of whom were unarmed at the time.

How correct you are! I agree 100% with you. For him to walk up behind Smith, shoot him 7 times in the back, then to take aim at his wife who was a complete victim probably screaming in fear for her life and that of her now dead husband shows he had every intent to kill them. That is murder no matter how you slice it. As you said he could have got back into his car and fled, or on foot. This makes him the aggressor!

 

[Saint Greg]

If someone tells you they are going to get a gun after being aggressive and belligerent, you may have only moments to determine the legitimacy of the threat and defend yourself or find you have lost your life.

And you already have your gun and you were belligerent as well. So you follow them to their car and shoot them 7 times. That's okay?

 

[gummbo70114]

As of now what has been attempted is not working. I'm not a gun activist by any means. I don't think banning AR-15's or other semi auto rifles will solve anything either. Just in this case with Smith he was killed with a simple handgun. Yes I am a police Officer but I actually only own one gun that was not issued to me by my department that is in my personal vehicle. My girlfriend owns one also that she keeps in her car and mine is a .380 Glock, hers a .38 revolver. I have my service handgun, Ar-15, and shotgun all issued by my department that stay in my department issued unit when off duty. I don't bring them in my house because I have small kids and if i do bring my sidearm inside I keep it in the level 3 retention holster and in a safe.
I don't know what will work but gun laws are not working and are not the end all be all answer either is all I can say. If you have all the answers then share but don't come at me with tons of attitude or disdain for pointing out that the current system isn't working if you yourself have no answers.

My answer to all of this that you have pointed out is this, you need to have comprehensive mental health checks to be able to obtain a gun or at least be able to fill out a permit to obtain a gun and while waiting for that permit to be approved to go through at least a minimum of a four week training course on how to handle said gun. On top of that to be able to remove guns with multiple capacity cartridges Off the market completely because no one needs an A.R. 15 semi automatic to go deer hunting. But of course if the killing of innocent children in high school junior high school in grammar school aren’t enough incentive to put positive legislation into place I don’t know what will.

 

[fishing4food]

If anyone has some time, review The Death of NFL star Will Smith on you tube made by Vice Sports. It's about 40 minutes long. Interesting interviews from members who participated in the trial and also from the lawyers.

 

[SigFreudianSlip]

How correct you are! I agree 100% with you. For him to walk up behind Smith, shoot him 7 times in the back, then to take aim at his wife who was a complete victim probably screaming in fear for her life and that of her now dead husband shows he had every intent to kill them. That is murder no matter how you slice it. As you said he could have got back into his car and fled, or on foot. This makes him the aggressor!

It does seem excessive to me.
Even if he stands his ground with his gun trained on Will....anything rather than shooting 7 or 8 times, and in the back. I just don’t see how that’s self defense.