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A person repeatedly made the false claims that sexual battery is legally different from sexual assault and that sexual battery doesn't warrant 6 months in prison. That person made what is and isn't the law in Wyoming part of this thread.
Carl Granderson sentenced to 6 months (1 Viewer)
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I agree.
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1. How did he plea to the original charges?
2. How did he plea to the lesser charges that carried the plea deal?
3. Did he go to trial?
4. Did the case ever reach discovery?
5. After the sentencing, was the case appealed?
6. Does the fact that this was a plea bargain change the automatic ability to appeal a case? What can his attorney challenge if an appeal is granted?
7. Does a successful appeal automatically result in a lesser sentence?
If you answer these questions honestly, this thread is over.
2. How did he plea to the lesser charges that carried the plea deal?
3. Did he go to trial?
4. Did the case ever reach discovery?
5. After the sentencing, was the case appealed?
6. Does the fact that this was a plea bargain change the automatic ability to appeal a case? What can his attorney challenge if an appeal is granted?
7. Does a successful appeal automatically result in a lesser sentence?
If you answer these questions honestly, this thread is over.
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Your turn to honestly answer a few simple questions.
1. Is sexual battery a type of sexual assault?
2. Was Granderson accused of sexual battery?
3. Was Granderson charged with sexual battery?
4. Did Granderson plea "no contest" to sexual battery?
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Perhaps I'm wrong, and I'm not going to make an argument for him, but I don't think that's what he was trying to say. But yes word choices matter. This thread unnecessarily went down a legalese route when I think it was obviously not what was being argued.
You don't know the answers to 6, 7 and 8. Which means you are omitting key parts of understanding what happened here. No, an appeal isn't automatic in this instance.
Sigh...and you've fallen back on this strawman that's not being debated.
To answer your questions:
1. Seriously? This is what I mean by obtuse. Yes.
2. Yes. To the question that answers nothing
3. Yes. To the question not being argued by anyone. Can you stop with these irrelevant questions now?
4. He did, but do you understand why he plead no contest when he was offered a plea deal? I dont think you do.
Like I said, when you answer questions 6, 7, and 8...and understand why someone would plea to a lesser charge and sentence in a plea bargain, this thread is done.
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Not sure about ‘unnecessarily ‘
Yes posters were talking past each other
One was staying laser focused on the specifics of the case and whether the player was railroaded
Other posters were trying to vent diagram this case into a broader discussion of #metoo, et al
Both can be right/wrong at the same time
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It's actually been argued at least twice that Granderson was not accused of sexual assault based on the flawed argument that sexual battery is not sexual assault.
Please stop falsely accusing me of making a strawman argument. I've only been correcting the factually inaccurate claims of someone who keeps misrepresenting this and other facts.
Since the beginning of this thread there has been two lines of discussion.
1. Did Granderson do what he was accused of doing? Was Granderson railroaded? I never took part in that discussion, because only Granderson and the two women involved will ever know the answers to those questions.
2. Is what Granderson was accused of doing sexual assault and should someone who does what Granderson was accused of doing go to prison? This is the discussion that I have been taking part in and it's been going on since the beginning of the thread.
I think you are mistakenly assuming that I'm arguing that Granderson is guilty and he should be in prison. I have not and I am not. I already agreed with you that the appeal decision is probably the appropriate and just outcome of this case.
I'm glad you acknowledged that the accusations in this case are in fact sexual assault and that a person can go to prison for up to a year for committing such acts of sexual assault.
Those factual truths are entirely relevant to the discussion of whether or not what Granderson was accused of is sexual assault and whether or not doing what Granderson was accused of doing is a serious enough offense to warrant someone spending time in prison. The answer is yes to both parts.
The specifics of the law are very much a part of the specifics of the case. Arguing that Granderson was railroaded is much different than arguing that what Graderson was accused of doing isn't sexual assault and no one should ever go to prison for doing it. Some have been using the first argument to erroneously prop up the second argument.
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eaton co saint
I hate the Broncos
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Can someone please explain why the sentencing judge didn't reject the plea deal instead of providing a 6 month jail sentence? If I agree to a deal, and I get anything other than that deal... is it not rejected?
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StudioSaint,
Let’s give this one more shot. There are distinct differences between sexual assault, and sexual battery according to Wyoming Law.
1: Sexual Assault- is a Felony charge and carries the max penalty of 15 years for the first offense.
2: Sexual Battery- the harshest charge for Sexual Battery is a Class A Misdemeanor with the max penalty of one year. While the most minimal charge (Unlawful Touching) is a Class C Misdemeanor and is considered a “minor offense” according to Wyoming Law, and is also the class of crime that littering falls under (Class C Misdemeanor) and can lead to a max of 6 months in jail.
So you might feel that sexual battery is equal to sexual assault, however in the eyes of the law, and the sentencing guidelines they are very different charges.
Let’s give this one more shot. There are distinct differences between sexual assault, and sexual battery according to Wyoming Law.
1: Sexual Assault- is a Felony charge and carries the max penalty of 15 years for the first offense.
2: Sexual Battery- the harshest charge for Sexual Battery is a Class A Misdemeanor with the max penalty of one year. While the most minimal charge (Unlawful Touching) is a Class C Misdemeanor and is considered a “minor offense” according to Wyoming Law, and is also the class of crime that littering falls under (Class C Misdemeanor) and can lead to a max of 6 months in jail.
So you might feel that sexual battery is equal to sexual assault, however in the eyes of the law, and the sentencing guidelines they are very different charges.
Mr. Sparkle
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All assaults are batteries but not all batteries are assaults.
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Actually you got that backwards. Leagally, a battery is any form of physical assault, so all batteries are assaults. However, not all assaults are batteries.
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No, there isn't.
Sexual battery is legally a form of sexual assault. What Granderson was accused of and plead no contest to is not as severe as rape and other more brutal forms of sexual assault, but he was accused of and plead no contest to a form of sexual assault which is defined as sexual battery.
The distinctions you are referring to are drawn along the lines of the degree of the sexual assault and the sentencing guidelines for that degree of the sexual assault. Sexual battery falls under Wyoming's sexual assault laws. Even though it is only considered a misdemeanor sexual assault, it is still a sexual assault.
I've quoted the actual sexual assault statutes of Wyoming several times, which show clearly and without any doubt, that sexual battery falls under Wyoming's laws of sexual assault. You keeping ignoring that fact and it seems intentional at this point.
I'll post the actual Wyoming law again in case you honestly just keep missing it:
This is directly quoted from that source. This is the title of the Wyoming criminal code regarding sexual battery which is clearly part of Wyoming's sexual assault laws.
TITLE 6 - CRIMES AND OFFENSES
CHAPTER 2 OFFENSES AGAINST THE PERSON
ARTICLE 3 - SEXUAL ASSAULT
6-2-313. Sexual battery.
You seem to mistakenly believe that all sexual assaults are either rape or other more brutal forms of sexual assault. That is not true. Rape and other more brutal sexual assaults are only a type of sexual assault. Rape and other more brutal forms of sexual assault fall under the felony part of sexual assault laws in Wyoming because they are so severe.
Not all sexual assaults are rape or other more brutal forms of sexual assault. Sexual battery is considered a less brutal degree of sexual assault than rape and other forms of sexual assault, that's why sexual battery is considered a misdemeanor. Sexual battery is still sexual assault under Wyoming law. It's a misdemeanor sexual assault, but it's still a sexual assault.
Explain why sexual battery falls under Wyoming's laws against sexual assault, if it's not considered sexual assault?
And you really should be ashamed of yourself for once again trying to equate committing sexual battery with littering. If any of us had a choice between someone sexually battering us or littering our lawn, which one do you think people would choose without even the slightest hesitation?
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StudioSaint,
I understand your point about it falling under the sex crimes header of “Sexual Assault”, but they delineate the differences in order to show the variances in the degree of the crime. Therefore by saying that he “sexually assaulted” the girls would make an uninformed reader feel that he was charged with the felony charge of Sexual Assault, which is a falsehood.
I know that you don’t do equivalent examples too well, because you tend to get triggered and all pissy, but I’m going to give it another shot: Would you label a person that accidentally kills another person in a car crash “Homicidal”, or a “murderer”? The person did kill another human, but there are clear cut delineations written in the laws to differentiate between a car accident and premeditated murder. So obviously you wouldn’t call the person a “murderer”, or maybe you might scream it at them every time you see them, I don’t know.
YOU: “And you really should be ashamed of yourself for once again trying to equate committing sexual battery with littering. If any of us had a choice between someone sexually battering us or littering our lawn, which one do you think people would choose without even the slightest hesitation?”
I don’t know who hurt you, but you are blowing the Class C offense of Unlawful Touching out of proportion. Putting your hand on someone’s buttocks without prior permission is a far, FAR, FAAAR distance from being “sexually battered”. And they both (Littering and Unlawful Touching) are literally and unequivocally considered “minor offenses” and the same level of offenses in Wyoming. So if you feel that Unlawful Touching should be considered being sexually battered then you need to talk to the legislature in Wyoming and voice your concerns. But since you misstated in one of your posts that it was in “Montana”, and not “Wyoming”, I don’t think that you even live here, so I don’t think that it matters.
I understand your point about it falling under the sex crimes header of “Sexual Assault”, but they delineate the differences in order to show the variances in the degree of the crime. Therefore by saying that he “sexually assaulted” the girls would make an uninformed reader feel that he was charged with the felony charge of Sexual Assault, which is a falsehood.
I know that you don’t do equivalent examples too well, because you tend to get triggered and all pissy, but I’m going to give it another shot: Would you label a person that accidentally kills another person in a car crash “Homicidal”, or a “murderer”? The person did kill another human, but there are clear cut delineations written in the laws to differentiate between a car accident and premeditated murder. So obviously you wouldn’t call the person a “murderer”, or maybe you might scream it at them every time you see them, I don’t know.
YOU: “And you really should be ashamed of yourself for once again trying to equate committing sexual battery with littering. If any of us had a choice between someone sexually battering us or littering our lawn, which one do you think people would choose without even the slightest hesitation?”
I don’t know who hurt you, but you are blowing the Class C offense of Unlawful Touching out of proportion. Putting your hand on someone’s buttocks without prior permission is a far, FAR, FAAAR distance from being “sexually battered”. And they both (Littering and Unlawful Touching) are literally and unequivocally considered “minor offenses” and the same level of offenses in Wyoming. So if you feel that Unlawful Touching should be considered being sexually battered then you need to talk to the legislature in Wyoming and voice your concerns. But since you misstated in one of your posts that it was in “Montana”, and not “Wyoming”, I don’t think that you even live here, so I don’t think that it matters.
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I made it very clear to every reader that he was charged with sexual battery which is legally a form of sexual assault. I agreed with you every time you said that was it was a misdemeanor offense and not a felony offense. The only falsehood in this discussion has been your repeated false claim that Sexual Battery is not legally Sexual Assuault.
Sexual Battery is legally a form of Sexual Assault. Thanks for finally admitting that.
Nothing I said would give any reader the false belief that Granderson was accused of rape or some other more brutal form of sexual assault, because I was always very clear on what specific actions he was accused of committing. There was no need for you to falsely claim that sexual battery is not a form of sexual assault on the grounds of preventing readers from getting the wrong idea about what specifically Granderson was accused of and charged with doing.
I understand analogies just fine.
That's hilariously rich coming from the guy who claimed the initial judge was out "to stick it to these evil things that have penises!" Talk about getting triggered and all pissy.
If they committed negligent homicide or murder, I absolutely would say they committed homicide or murder. I like to be honest, truthful and accurate about facts.
You're leaving out a lot of levels of legal murder that exists between a car accident and premeditated murder. Like I said, I'm really good with analogies.
What Granderson was accused of doing didn't lack intention, like how killing someone in a car accident would lack intention. That's why your analogy doesn't apply. What Granderson was accused of doing would have been done with intent and is sexual battery which is a form of sexual assault under the law. There's no truer or more accurate way to say it. There's no more honest of a way to say it. The truth is the truth.
Do you not know how the quoting feature works? Why not actually quote me?
Why not answer the question? Which would you rather someone do to you, sexually batter you or litter your lawn?
Notice how I was speaking about Sexual Battery and not Unlawful Touching above? Remember that, because it's going to come up again a couple of comments below.
I've never been sexually assaulted or unlawfully touched, if that's what you're getting at.
No, I'm not. I wasn't talking about the Unlawful Touching charge. I pointed it out to you above, remember? I've been talking about the Sexual Battery charge. I was very clear that I was talking about the Sexual Battery charge. You conflated Sexual Battery with Unlawful Touching and then equated them to littering. Maybe it's not what you intended, but it's what you did.
All I did is make it clear that Sexual Battery is a more serious and severe offense than littering, so that there would be no confusion about that fact. In case you forgot, look back a couple of replies above and you will see that you quoted me very clearly and directly talking about Sexual Battery, not Unlawful touching.
You're right. That's true. However, Granderson was accused of more than just fondling someone's buttocks without prior permission. What he was accused of and was charged with doing is sexual battery, that's why he was charged with sexual battery. He was specifically accused of:
- fondling one woman's breast while she was sleeping, then fondling her breast a second time after she woke up and moved his hand away, and then fondling her breast a third time after she moved his hand away for the second time
- fondling the other woman's buttocks while she was asleep and then sliding his hand in side her pants and fondle her some more
- fondling is more than just "putting your hand on" a part of someone's body
True, but Granderson was accused of and charged with more than just Unlawful Touching. The Sexual Battery he was accused of and charged with is more serious than both Unlawful Touching and Littering. There's nothing you can say that's ever going to change those facts.
This isn't about what I feel. This has never been about what I feel.
This is about the facts that you and I both know are true. It's a fact that Granderson was also accused of and charged with Sexual Battery. I think Sexual Battery should be considered Sexual Battery, don't you?
Okay!? I never claimed to live in Wyoming and I accidentally misstated Montana, how do either of those matter?
By the way, how's life in Oklahoma City?
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StudioSaint,
Stalk much? I misunderstood the question when I initially answered it as Oklahoma City. I have lived here in Wyoming since December 2000 after I got out of the Army. If you want me to send pictures I will gladly do so.
Each time that I made the equivalent of Littering and “Unlawful Touching” I explained that it was the Class C Misdemeanor Charge that I was referring to. And as a heads up, the that charge, is called Unlawful Contact and doesn’t even fall under the header of Sexual Assault. It falls under Article 5, Assault and Battery and is the weakest charge under Simple Assault; Battery. And each time I made the legal comparison, you lost your sheet and started screeching about me making littering the same as being sexually assaulted and sexually battered. While all I was doing was stating the legal fact that they are both; the same class of misdemeanor, and hold the same sentencing guidelines.
62302, 62303, 62304. Sexual assault
62313. Sexual battery
And I took your advice and read all of your prior posts. [mod edit]
The old school way of actually quoting someone is by adding quotation marks, and attributing the quote to the person that made the statement, so I did “actually quote” you.
Stalk much? I misunderstood the question when I initially answered it as Oklahoma City. I have lived here in Wyoming since December 2000 after I got out of the Army. If you want me to send pictures I will gladly do so.
Each time that I made the equivalent of Littering and “Unlawful Touching” I explained that it was the Class C Misdemeanor Charge that I was referring to. And as a heads up, the that charge, is called Unlawful Contact and doesn’t even fall under the header of Sexual Assault. It falls under Article 5, Assault and Battery and is the weakest charge under Simple Assault; Battery. And each time I made the legal comparison, you lost your sheet and started screeching about me making littering the same as being sexually assaulted and sexually battered. While all I was doing was stating the legal fact that they are both; the same class of misdemeanor, and hold the same sentencing guidelines.
The problems that I had with your statements were your original claims that he “plead guilty” and that he plead guilty to Sexual Assault. You fixed the original claim, but you still are under the belief that the charge and sentencing of Sexual Battery is somehow the same as Sexual Assault simply because both crimes fall under the header of Sexual Assault. Even though they fall under distinctly different line numbers that differentiate the crimes and punishment.
The 6 month sentencing guidelines aren’t even the the Sexual Battery charge, it is the Unlawful Contact (Class C Misdemeanor Simple Battery charge) that has a max of 6 months.
They are legally different:
62302, 62303, 62304. Sexual assault
62313. Sexual battery
And I took your advice and read all of your prior posts. [mod edit]
I have been a victim of sexual assault and abuse, and what happened to these girls wasn’t sexual assault. Yes, for victim #2, it did fit the legal description of sexual battery. But I, like the DA (in the accepted plea agreement), are in agreement that the severity of the actions by Granderson didn’t warrant jail time. And as for victim #1, the charge isn’t a sexual based offense.
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