Carl Granderson sentenced to 6 months (4 Viewers)

[TulsaSaint]

A person can't give consent while they are asleep and she pushed his hand away twice after she woke up, so the punishment doesn't seem so outrageous to me. Would you think the same way if this were two guys sleeping in the same bed and one guy fondled the other's genitals while he was asleep and the fondler kept trying to fondle the person even after his hand was pushed away twice?

I mean, as a gay dude who's done this to others and had it done to me more times than I can count, I assure you that neither of us took it all that seriously.

 

[crosswatt]

I mean, as a gay dude who's done this to others and had it done to me more times than I can count, I assure you that neither of us took it all that seriously.

This assumes that you were sexually interested in the other party though.

 

[Thunderchild]

This assumes that you were sexually interested in the other party though.

But how do you know if that individual was sexually interested at that moment, though? Actually just a rhetorical question. That interest is no longer historical in the least. It is now moment to moment.

Thank God I'm married and no longer dating. The dating waters are treacherous and filled with hazards.

 

[crosswatt]

@guillermo made a point earlier, as to what anyone's opinion was about what this meant for Granderson future with the Saints.my assumption would be that he would go on the commissioners exempt non-injury list, and also be suspended at some point, so 2019 is most likely totally shot for him.

Since the Saints seemed comfortable that this was a one-time incident on his part, I would assume that they would keep him around and/or put him on the practice squad once his sentence and League induced punishment is over.
Or do we think they decide the PR hit isn't worth it, and they just cut him loose?

 

[crosswatt]

But how do you know if that individual was sexually interested at that moment, though? Actually just a rhetorical question. That interest is no longer historical in the least. It is now moment to moment.

Thank God I'm married and no longer dating. The dating waters are treacherous and filled with hazards.

Well the simplest solution is you would ask them. Or at the first rejection, you would not attempt anything else. I don't think anybody blames the dude for shooting his shot, or his hoping that they were into him considering their proximity, but after being rebuffed the first time by both girls, he should have stopped completely, and then the next morning had a discussion about the nature of the relationship going forward. I mean, that seems pretty reasonable to me.

 

[Thunderchild]

Well the simplest solution is you would ask them. Or at the first rejection, you would not attempt anything else. I don't think anybody blames the dude for shooting his shot, or his hoping that they were into him considering their proximity, but after being rebuffed the first time by both girls, he should have stopped completely, and then the next morning had a discussion about the nature of the relationship going forward. I mean, that seems pretty reasonable to me.

But it is so much more complicated than that. I could agree that is a reasonable way to approach things. But only asking would truly be legitimate. Touching and then being rebuffed is also molesting. You have to have that consent first in today's environment.

Most reasonable people would not blame him for shooting his shot, but if the other party isn't reasonable or you have deep pockets that the other party would like to get into, even that fairly innocent testing of the waters is a no-no.

Lets take it out of that situation that Granderson was in for a second. When I was dating, and hopefully in most cases today, if you're kissing a girl and move your hand down to her behind she will just reach back and move your hand back up to her lower back if she was not interested in that next step. That, imo, is reasonable. But in today's environment that could, with the wrong partner, cause issues.

The only answer is to ask and then document that answer somehow. Anything less is fraught with danger.

But TulsaSaint is right, at least in past tense. What he described wasn't taken seriously by either party ( in the heterosexual world as well) in the past. Today it is considered a jailable offense.

Romance? 'Tis dead, bro. All clinical now. But I guess its the changing of the times and you just have to enter those waters cautiously and let the other party make the moves.

 

[crosswatt]

But it is so much more complicated than that. I could agree that is a reasonable way to approach things. But only asking would truly be legitimate. Touching and then being rebuffed is also molesting. You have to have that consent first in today's environment.

Most reasonable people would not blame him for shooting his shot, but if the other party isn't reasonable or you have deep pockets that the other party would like to get into, even that fairly innocent testing of the waters is a no-no.

Lets take it out of that situation that Granderson was in for a second. When I was dating, and hopefully in most cases today, if you're kissing a girl and move your hand down to her behind she will just reach back and move your hand back up to her lower back if she was not interested in that next step. That, imo, is reasonable. But in today's environment that could, with the wrong partner, cause issues.

The only answer is to ask and then document that answer somehow. Anything less is fraught with danger.

But TulsaSaint is right, at least in past tense. What he described wasn't taken seriously by either party ( in the heterosexual world as well) in the past. Today it is considered a jailable offense.

Romance? 'Tis dead, bro. All clinical now. But I guess its the changing of the times and you just have to enter those waters cautiously and let the other party make the moves.

I mean, if you can't figure out a way to make gaining consent sexy, then the dating pool isn't the place for you. Not "you" you, but collectively.

There was a time not that long ago when you could sell your daughters like broodmares. Times change. Society changes. And the choices are whining about the way things used to be, or figuring out a way to adapt to the new way of doing things.

 

[FLYGHT]

Quote)
THEY. WERE. IN. HIS. BED. and he stopped when they didn't reciprocate. Get out of here with your self righteous indignation. That young man did not deserve what was handed down to him by a judge with an obvious agenda.



Ridiculous Overkill. That Judge should be removed. this is not a crime as there were mixed signals and once those signals were understood the action stopped. those girls apparently were not so assaulted as they stayed there they didn't scream they didnt walk out. I know if I were assaulted I would be making it my business to separate myself from the assailant. They did not they continued to stay there and slept unharmed untiul he left them in his place the next morning. say what you want. this was not the crime it was mage out to be and the punishment was way out of line. Victim shaming... yes but the victim that's being shamed is Granderson. This must mean that Donald Trump deserves at least a year for his self admitted grabing the P. actions not to mention those rapes and sexual assaults that no one wants to address. Now theres what you should be jumping up and down about.

 

[crosswatt]

Ridiculous Overkill. That Judge should be removed. this is not a crime as there were mixed signals and once those signals were understood the action stopped. those girls apparently were not so assaulted as they stayed there they didn't scream they didnt walk out. I know if I were assaulted I would be making it my business to separate myself from the assailant. They did not they continued to stay there and slept unharmed untiul he left them in his place the next morning. say what you want. this was not the crime it was mage out to be and the punishment was way out of line. Victim shaming... yes but the victim that's being shamed is Granderson. This must mean that Donald Trump deserves at least a year for his self admitted grabing the P. actions not to mention those rapes and sexual assaults that no one wants to address. Now theres what you should be jumping up and down about.

Check the PDB board for my feelings on the current oval office occupant. I am very consistent.

And you are not the arbiter of how people must react for a situation to be assualt or make them uncomfortable. They get to determine that. You should probably read some of the issues that Terry Crews dealt with after his own sexual assualt. The feelings and emotions he has gone through.

Also, I think this post I read earlier this week on Reddit should hopefully open some minds up to the fact that not everyone deals with unwanted touching the same way. During or after.

This reminds me of my experience at a party a couple years ago. It’s nothing similar to your story, but everybody there was a friend of mine or a friend of a friend so I trusted these people. This drunk guy comes up to me and we talk, he seems nice. He shakes my hand (out of respect, as drunk people do) and we keep talking.

He says I’m his friend now (in my experience when you’re drunk everybody’s your friend). So I’m like hey, we’re friends! He comes in for a hug and I give him a hug. He’s so drunk but up til now he’s just been a happy drunk guy at a small party. But while he’s hugging me he kisses my neck softly. In such a creepy way. I back off him and continue on with my night but he kept trying to talk to me. I left that party early.

I’ve never been sexually assaulted in my life and I’m a 230 lb bearded guy, I never expected something so trivial would have an effect on me. But it did. And just thinking about it can change my mood. And I think about it at least once a week, sometimes it dampens the rest of my day.

I can’t even imagine how victims of rape or assault deal with their experiences. And up til now I thought that was all I’m ignorant about. But reading this post gives me a glimpse into how much worse it must be for any of those people, compounding the torture of their initial assault with the indifferent legal system, facing their abuser multiple times, and then a defense attorney tearing into you. My heart goes out to everybody who’s faced any of this and survived. Here's the link to the actual post this replied to, if anyone wishes to read more.

 

[Thunderchild]

I mean, if you can't figure out a way to make gaining consent sexy, then the dating pool isn't the place for you. Not "you" you, but collectively.

There was a time not that long ago when you could sell your daughters like broodmares. Times change. Society changes. And the choices are whining about the way things used to be, or figuring out a way to adapt to the new way of doing things.

Well, not for "me" me, either.

 

[FLYGHT]

Check the PDB board for my feelings on the current oval office occupant. I am very consistent.

And you are not the arbiter of how people must react for a situation to be assualt or make them uncomfortable. They get to determine that. You should probably read some of the issues that Terry Crews dealt with after his own sexual assualt. The feelings and emotions he has gone through.

Also, I think this post I read earlier this week on Reddit should hopefully open some minds up to the fact that not everyone deals with unwanted touching the same way. During or after.

This reminds me of my experience at a party a couple years ago. It’s nothing similar to your story, but everybody there was a friend of mine or a friend of a friend so I trusted these people. This drunk guy comes up to me and we talk, he seems nice. He shakes my hand (out of respect, as drunk people do) and we keep talking.

He says I’m his friend now (in my experience when you’re drunk everybody’s your friend). So I’m like hey, we’re friends! He comes in for a hug and I give him a hug. He’s so drunk but up til now he’s just been a happy drunk guy at a small party. But while he’s hugging me he kisses my neck softly. In such a creepy way. I back off him and continue on with my night but he kept trying to talk to me. I left that party early.

I’ve never been sexually assaulted in my life and I’m a 230 lb bearded guy, I never expected something so trivial would have an effect on me. But it did. And just thinking about it can change my mood. And I think about it at least once a week, sometimes it dampens the rest of my day.

I can’t even imagine how victims of rape or assault deal with their experiences. And up til now I thought that was all I’m ignorant about. But reading this post gives me a glimpse into how much worse it must be for any of those people, compounding the torture of their initial assault with the indifferent legal system, facing their abuser multiple times, and then a defense attorney tearing into you. My heart goes out to everybody who’s faced any of this and survived. Here's the link to the actual post this replied to, if anyone wishes to read more.

I am a survivor of Sexual Abuse. So dont tell me about what they must experience because Ive had to live it. You are dead wrong! There was NO RAPE here! Stop acting Like there was and that I am condoning that I am NOT! I wont let you change what I am saying. This was not an assault. the DA.s office did not feel they could make That CASE BUT THIS jUDGE MADE IT POSSIBLE FOR THAT YOUNG MAN TO BE PUNISHED jUST BECAUSE SHE HAS THAT power (sorry for the caps) that is the travisty here. This young man did not rape anyone and unfer the circumstances it seems he was not intrested in harming anyone. his actions were Normal. when are you going to see that and stop thinking that every person that cries assault does so out of sincerity and truth. That same situation in 40 other states would have ended just as the DA intended. What happened here at beast was simple assault/ offwensive touching. nothing more. certainly not something where jail time is warranted.

 

[crosswatt]

I am a survivor of Sexual Abuse. So dont tell me about what they must experience because Ive had to live it. You are dead wrong! There was NO RAPE here! Stop acting Like there was and that I am condoning that I am NOT! I wont let you change what I am saying. This was not an assault. the DA.s office did not feel they could make That CASE BUT THIS jUDGE MADE IT POSSIBLE FOR THAT YOUNG MAN TO BE PUNISHED jUST BECAUSE SHE HAS THAT power (sorry for the caps) that is the travisty here. This young man did not rape anyone and unfer the circumstances it seems he was not intrested in harming anyone. his actions were Normal. when are you going to see that and stop thinking that every person that cries assault does so out of sincerity and truth. That same situation in 40 other states would have ended just as the DA intended. What happened here at beast was simple assault/ offwensive touching. nothing more. certainly not something where jail time is warranted.

Then why plead guilty and accept the deal in the first place? Because he should have stopped what he was doing earlier in the encounter and hopefully knows it now. It is not contested that he committed sexual battery and unlawful contact. He did that. It is a crime. The judge didn't upgrade him back to felony charges that will be on his record forever, but apparently felt that some jail time was warranted. I'm not pretending to know her reasons.

And I'm sorry for what happened to you. I wouldn't wish it on anyone. We all have a right to say who gets to touch our bodies. That wasn't afforded you and that sucks.

 

[crosswatt]

This is from the sentencing hearing, where the two victims gave statements. They both chose to go by their initials:

Both said they were under the impression that Granderson was going to plead guilty to the new charges and that they wouldn’t have agreed to the deal if they’d known he was going to enter any other plea. They also spoke directly to Granderson, who was stoic throughout the proceedings while seated next to Goetz.
Wearing an all-black suit, Granderson dropped his head for long periods of time as his accusers spoke of the mental and physical toll they said the abuse has taken on their lives. A.A., a UW student-athlete, said she was hospitalized this spring for depression and suicidal thoughts after being “harassed and bullied” by members of UW’s football team and fellow student-athlete Ja’la Henderson, Granderson’s girlfriend.
“He’s 100 percent guilty,” said A.A., who paused numerous times throughout her statement to wipe away tears. “I literally almost lost my life because of him. I want him to face every consequence he can get.
“You, Carl, know exactly what we went through, and you can now hear my voice.”

D.H. claimed she was told to “suck it up” and that “we’d just be slut-shamed.” She said she also had to be hospitalized for panic attacks after the incident.
“I was terrified to go anywhere I may see you,” D.H. said as she addressed Granderson. “Because of you, I’m no longer who I once was.”

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

I think we’re at a place where you are both correct given evidence at hand
But there’s not enough evidence to prove The other one wrong

One of the takeaways I wish people would arrive at is that ‘the way things were’ was probably not the best
What is most likely is that most of us engaged in sexual intimidation and maybe even sexual assault when we thought girls were ‘playing hard to get’
They were just socialized to go along instead of risking anger or the eventual social shaming

 

[StudioSaint]

I am a survivor of Sexual Abuse. So dont tell me about what they must experience because Ive had to live it.

Every person's individual experience and reaction are different. They are also all equally valid. Your experience doesn't negate someone else's experience just because you think your experience was worse than someone else's. To get a humorous perspective on this look up The 4 (or Four) Yorkshiremen on youtube.

You are dead wrong! There was NO RAPE here!...This was not an assault.

Rape is one form of sexual assault. It is not the only form of sexual assault. He was not charged with rape. He did not plead guilty to rape. He was not sentenced for rape.

Gunderson "was originally charged with third-degree sexual assault in addition to one count of sexual battery after two female UW students accused the 6-foot-5, 250-pound defensive lineman of unwanted sexual contact while sleeping at his off-campus apartment on the night of Nov. 25 and into Nov. 26." So the actions you say are not sexual assault are in fact considered a form of sexual assault by the state of Wyoming as well as many other states.

People saying the sentence is unfair have been focused on what he allegedly did. They have been saying that what he allegedly did is not sexual assault and he's been sentenced unfairly for what he allegedly did. That is simply factually false. There is no question that his alleged actions are considered a form of sexual assault and he was sentenced on the lenient side of the sentencing guidelines for that specific crime.

One can debate whether or not he actually did what he was accused of, but there is no valid claim that what he allegedly did is not sexual assault.

Former UW football player Carl Granderson sentenced to six months in jail

A judge rejected the terms of Granderson's plea agreement Thursday morning.

trib.com

...the DA.s office did not feel they could make That CASE...

Please post a link and quote from a source saying the DA felt they couldn't make a case. Everything I've read is that Gunderson's attorney initiated the plea bargain, not the DA. I can't find anything that states the DA felt they couldn't make their case. Also, there's these important bits of information from the article linked above that have been left out of the discussion:

But the felony assault charge was replaced with misdemeanor unlawful contact as part of amended information filed in the case Wednesday.

This has been a well put-together, thought-out plea agreement,” prosecuting attorney Becky Farley said as she asked district court judge Tori Kricken to accept the terms of the deal.

But Kricken rejected them and ordered Granderson to begin immediately serving six months in the Albany County Detention Center on the count of unlawful contact. Kricken also gave Granderson a one-year jail sentence on the sexual battery charge, but that will be suspended with one year of supervised probation once he has completed his six months of incarceration.

After briefly consulting with Goetz once the proceedings ended, Granderson was taken into custody and led out of the courtroom. Goetz declined to comment on the sentencing. Granderson declined to make a statement when offered a chance by Kricken.

Before Kricken handed down her sentence, Granderson’s victims, who were identified as A.A. and D.H. in court filings and chose to only identify themselves by their initials in court, were given the opportunity to make statements.

Both said they were under the impression that Granderson was going to plead guilty to the new charges and that they wouldn’t have agreed to the deal if they’d known he was going to enter any other plea. They also spoke directly to Granderson, who was stoic throughout the proceedings while seated next to Goetz.

Kricken addressed Granderson one last time before issuing the sentence, telling him that “making bad choices doesn’t make you a bad person.” But Kricken added that Granderson had shown little remorse for his actions and that punishment should be doled out that’s severe enough to deter him from repeating them in the future.

What happened here at beast was simple assault/ offwensive touching. nothing more. certainly not something where jail time is warranted.

He was sentenced in accordence with sentencing guidelines for unlawful contact which in fact does come with jail time, so I don't see the justification for saying the judge was overly harsh or abused her power.