Carney vs. Hartley (2 Viewers)

[AceTW]

And he must be our only kicker.

I think we've all seen the folly of having "just the one kicker" recently.

 

[snake pliskin]

Keep Carney. I think Morstead could be used to kick the 55-plus FG's. He did it at SMU I believe.

 

[Domeination]

Chicago 16, New Orleans 14. Late 3rd quarter NFC CG 2006.

49 yard attempt and we elect to go with the "long kicker" and he misses it miserably.

Saints go on to lose.

I don't want to relive that scenario. Keep the kid. And he must be our only kicker. No split duties. That won't any good for Hartley's psychie.

Carney didn't miss that kick. We had another dude on the roster just for long kicks, and he was the one who missed it. Nevertheless, it's true that we had the other kicker b/c we knew Carney couldn't make anything outisde 45, certainly not outdoors in below freezing weather.

 

[Wisco Steve]

Carney would struggle to make anything over 42 right now. He already reads the writing on the wall ("one eye on the rest of the league"). I said it a while ago, there is no way we are keeping Carney around. I certainly don't hate the guy, but he has very little leg strength left and at some point it is going to cost us dearly when we need a long FG or when he tries to dial one up from 45 and has to drive it so low that it gets blocked and goes the other way for six.

It's not like we are bringing someone back like Mare (all leg no accuracy). Hartley was perfect last year, and adds another weapon to are already stacked attack.

 

[SaintlyAgenda]

No one has to tell veteran kicker John Carney that these could be his last days wearing a New Orleans Saints uniform.

New Orleans Saints kicker John Carney says he has been keeping an eye out for possible job opportunities elsewhere in the league because of the pending return of Garrett Hartley from suspension. Kicker Garrett Hartley is expected to be reinstated to the Saints' 53-man roster after serving a four-game suspension for violating the league's substance abuse policy. That reinstatement is expected to come after Sunday's game against the Jets at the Superdome.

http://www.nola.com/saints/index.ssf/2009/10/saints_kicker_john_carney_know.html

 

[Sladebomb]

They both scare me.... Does anyone else feel sick in their stomach when we go for a FG... Maybe its just me....

 

[Domeination]

This is a tough call. If Carney were having to kick off, there would be no question that Payton would be bringing back Hartely. But our punter is doing an excellent job kicking off, and with the ability of our offense to score, there's not a lot of pressure to have a kicker who is accurate beyond 40 yards. The problems with not bringing back Hartely, as I see it, are (1) the Saints probably lose him to another team, and I think he has a lot of upside as a promising young kicker and could be our kicker for many years (whereas Carney is almost done); (2) Carney looks a little shakey on his FGs and Payton may actually be taking a risk if he relies only on him. Sooner or later, we will need to make a kick beyond 40 yards to win a game, and at this point Hartely may be the better bet.

 

[money941]

Keep both Carney and Hartley this season.

This.

Carney can do the kicks from inside 35 and Hartley can do the ones from 35+ with Morstead continuing kickoff duty.

 

[longgraybeard]

I think there is a better chance of cutting Carney and resigning him later if Hartley begins to miss than cutting Hartley and being able to get him back if he is needed. Some team would probably sign Hartley...... I'm not so sure one would sign Carney. He's watching the league for teams with kicking problems. Are there any out there?

 

[keefresh2]

This.

Carney can do the kicks from inside 35 and Hartley can do the ones from 35+ with Morstead continuing kickoff duty.

I've thought about this scenario as well.

Who would we waive from the roster to keep 2 kickers? Rod Harper?

 

[TheDeparted]

I like Carney; he's a class act, too. But I just don't see any reason why Hartley shouldn't be given his job back. It's not like we cut him, and we've kept him on the roster (even though he didn't count toward the 53) through his suspension so I'm pretty sure he's sticking around.


What I want to know is: who handles kick-off duties when Hartley comes back? I'm thinking Hartley there, too as I think he gets the ball a bit higher for the same distance as Morestead.

Carney can do the kicks from inside 35 and Hartley can do the ones from 35+ with Morstead continuing kickoff duty.

But why? Hartley is a good kicker and can make the 35-yard kicks. We did this with Carney/Cundiff because Cundiff wasn't a good kicker, but at least gave us a chance to make the long FGs.

 

[BigDSaintsFan]

No real technical discussion here... not much that way in terms of kickers. But I just wanted to throw in my two cents in light of Hartley's looming reinstatement.

I think Hartley is a good kicker. He has a strong leg and did an excellent job after coming in late last season. But if I were the Saints brass, I would cut him and hang onto John Carney.

Yes, there is a danger of letting Hartley walk out the door. He'll be at the top of a lot of teams lists (Seahawks?) and could catch on somewhere else permanently. Even though he was curiously shaky this preseason, I think he has a bright future in the NFL and has the talent to stay in the league for a while. That said, he WAS shaky in the preseason. His previous body of work is only a few games from last season. What he was/is likely going through is just a phase of accuracy struggles, but the Saints seem to have lightning in a bottle right now and shouldn't take any unnecessary risks with regard to the place kicking game... which is looking pretty solid/consistent.

You know what you have in John Carney. He went to the Pro Bowl last season at the age of 46 or 47... and only after he was signed by the Giants due to an injury. He's obviously not a long term solution, but he is very accurate and consistent kicking from inside the 40. Sean Payton has already admitted that it was a mistake to let him walk out the door after the '06 season. I say don't make that mistake again.

The only merit I see in keeping Hartley over Carney is long-term. The focus needs to be on this season. Again... it's just the kicker, not the QB, so I won't be up in arms either way. But John has earned his spot, IMO, for at least one more season (and it'd be nice to have him be a part of Saints history after the years he's put in to this organization).

I see your point and you are right. This season versus long term is the question. This could go either way.

 

[TCUDan]

I see your point and you are right. This season versus long term is the question. This could go either way.

exactly

I won't be critical either way, but it's just what I'd do as the coach. There's merits to both sides of the argument.

 

[Wisco Steve]

Keep both Carney and Hartley this season.

I am not saying that this isn't a possibility, but as the season wears on and injuries build it would be very difficult to carry both. Also it is not like when we had Carney/Cundiff, Hartley is more than capable of handling all the kicking duties (as was evident in 08').

 

[guillermo]

Can Harley go to the practice squad. He was a rookie last year and didn't play the whole season.

With him there we can check his accuracy and make a decision later. If Carney is fine, keep him, and if Hartley is spectacular, then make the switch.

I don't think we have to decide right away. Both have pros and cons.