Chad Johnson/Carson Palmer: Mike Mckenzie probably the best CB we'll face all season (2 Viewers)

[DownWithDisease]

I'd say the early 90's were probably the "Golden Age" of CBs now that i'm thinking about it (Aeneas Williams and Eric Allen thrown in there as well) .

Don't forget about Jason Sehorn... Dude was a legit "shut-down" CB before hurtin himself returning pre-season kick-offs.

 

[LSSpam]

Actually I disagree. That was the direction CBs WERE headed, and McKenzie at the time was the poster-boy but there were others.

I won't argue, because you know bucketloads more than I do, and I respect your opinions.

It is reasonable to project, however, that NFL players generally will just keep on getting bigger - taller, heavier, faster - through generational change, because that's what's happened over the decades, and not just in football. It's something I find interesting. For example, just how big can a guard get before he becomes ineffective? 400lb? More?

I've seen reports from medical experts that a 400lb lineman is not feasible because his heart won't be able to cope with the violent work his body will be required to put out. But I'm not so sure. You can bet medical experts were saying that about 300lb linemen in the past.

Well it's an interesting question. Players HAVE gotten bigger. But you also touch on another point. At some point there is a ceiling for the human body.

There have been 400lb linemen. Aaron Gibson "the next evolution" comes to mind. He was a complete bust. It's just impossible to get 400lbs moving. DT Gilbert Brown for the Packers also comes to mind. He played at 380lbs all of maybe 2 seasons. He was at best a 10-20 down player after that, and even then not for long.

400lbs represents a barrier I think. You can't get bigger then that and still be effective.

Even now the NFL is shifting back to a smaller linemen mindset as zone-blocking schemes become more prevelant and defensive linemen get smaller. I doubt we'll ever see a remergence of the 270lb lineman, but I suspect the "average" NFL offensive lineman weight will perpetually swing between 290lbs and 330lbs (with the defensive line, except for NTs, commonly running 260/270 to 320). Anything more is too much of a sacrafice in mobility/stamina.

So what about height? I think a similiar ceiling exists. There have been experiments with "freaks" at WR. The Ravens for example got Clarence Moore who is 6'6. In college Memphis has a 6'8 WR I believe. But have you ever seen these guys run? It's not pretty. Moore, after being experimented with in the starting lineup, is now nothing more then a Red Zone novelty act they throw the fade too.

If your WR is TOO big, his strides get to long for him to make the quick cuts, hitches, double moves, etc nessecary in todays NFL passing game. I doubt you'll ever see a 6'8 WR be effective simply because he would likely be an awful route runner. 6'4 seems to represent a sort of ceiling.

I mean Steve Smith and Santana Moss are two of the best NFL WR's at just 5'10. And they do it differently then big Colston or Plaxico Burress do. They do it with nifty moves, great acceleration, and great agility, things Burress nor Colston can match because they are long striders.

So I think WR will always stay in the 5'10 to 6'4 range as well.

 

[CHI-TOWNSAINT]

Well it's an interesting question. Players HAVE gotten bigger. But you also touch on another point. At some point there is a ceiling for the human body.

There have been 400lb linemen. Aaron Gibson "the next evolution" comes to mind. He was a complete bust. It's just impossible to get 400lbs moving. DT Gilbert Brown for the Packers also comes to mind. He played at 380lbs all of maybe 2 seasons. He was at best a 10-20 down player after that, and even then not for long.

400lbs represents a barrier I think. You can't get bigger then that and still be effective.

Even now the NFL is shifting back to a smaller linemen mindset as zone-blocking schemes become more prevelant and defensive linemen get smaller. I doubt we'll ever see a remergence of the 270lb lineman, but I suspect the "average" NFL offensive lineman weight will perpetually swing between 290lbs and 330lbs (with the defensive line, except for NTs, commonly running 260/270 to 320). Anything more is too much of a sacrafice in mobility/stamina.

So what about height? I think a similiar ceiling exists. There have been experiments with "freaks" at WR. The Ravens for example got Clarence Moore who is 6'6. In college Memphis has a 6'8 WR I believe. But have you ever seen these guys run? It's not pretty. Moore, after being experimented with in the starting lineup, is now nothing more then a Red Zone novelty act they throw the fade too.

If your WR is TOO big, his strides get to long for him to make the quick cuts, hitches, double moves, etc nessecary in todays NFL passing game. I doubt you'll ever see a 6'8 WR be effective simply because he would likely be an awful route runner. 6'4 seems to represent a sort of ceiling.

I mean Steve Smith and Santana Moss are two of the best NFL WR's at just 5'10. And they do it differently then big Colston or Plaxico Burress do. They do it with nifty moves, great acceleration, and great agility, things Burress nor Colston can match because they are long striders.

So I think WR will always stay in the 5'10 to 6'4 range as well.

Good post and completely agree

 

[Great Dane]

Who in gay Citrus hell built that website OMG that bright Flamboyant Orange!

 

[Forest]

They're not. Its just a vocal minority. For every 1 person in a thread making baseless claims like "Mckenzie gets burnt every play" or "Mckenzie cant' tackle", theres another 10 saying "huh? what are you talking about."

Could be it...and I could have sworn while browsing this I saw someone type MM is horrible in run support...that's an amazing statement if they were in fact discussing MM....lol

 

[skymike]

Who knows what Chad Johnson is trying to do? I'd almost rather he trash talk us. He's a pretty fun character. I hope we shut him down totally, but If he does score one, I hope we get a "riverdance." I crack up every time I see that one.

I got a little extra from Palmer's interview. Read it and see if you agree with me in inferring that:

1. He thinks our defense is pretty simple.
2. There has been some play calling issue, and he's been spanked in some way,
and one of their assistants has taken away his leeway.
3. He must've felt some advantage going "no-huddle," and now theyre gonna bog
down in their more conventional play-calling.
4. Their play calling is gonna get more conservative.
5. They're not prepared to play in the Superdome and deal with US--The SuperCrowd!
6. The sky is falling.

Im pretty excited!

I'll bet Jason Craft could smoke every one of US in a pickup basketball game.

 

[BoNcHiE]

Who knows what Chad Johnson is trying to do? I'd almost rather he trash talk us. He's a pretty fun character. I hope we shut him down totally, but If he does score one, I hope we get a "riverdance." I crack up every time I see that one.

I got a little extra from Palmer's interview. Read it and see if you agree with me in inferring that:

1. He thinks our defense is pretty simple.
2. There has been some play calling issue, and he's been spanked in some way,
and one of their assistants has taken away his leeway.
3. He must've felt some advantage going "no-huddle," and now theyre gonna bog
down in their more conventional play-calling.
4. Their play calling is gonna get more conservative.
5. They're not prepared to play in the Superdome and deal with US--The SuperCrowd!
6. The sky is falling.

Im pretty excited!

I'll bet Jason Craft could smoke every one of US in a pickup basketball game.

I think Chad is done bashing CB's for a while, at least until they start winning again.

 

[NPs6724]

I'll bet Jason Craft could smoke every one of US in a pickup basketball game.

Good thing he plays for the Hornets and not the Saints....right?

 

[SW Saints Fan]

Chad Johnson doesn't typically compliment corners, he calls them out. Calling MM the best corner he's faced all season is reverse philsophy.

EXACTLY! C Johnson is likely to have a big day....Brees/Colston/Bush, etc just need to have a bigger day. If they say that about MM...what do they think of W. Smith and/or C. Grant? We need to get after Palmer, he is not that mobile with that heavy knee brace on and force the issue irt their passing game.

 

[HennessyRob]

Chad will score 2 TD's.
We will still win.

 

[peytonknows]

.

. The change in rule emphasis hindered his physical style (which is why he draws penalties sometimes) but it's not like he turned into a pumpkin. He still has cover skills.

CBs get way to much criticism considering the difficulty of the position and rarity of talent.

True, very true.

 

[fr3sh]

This is what I have been trying to say for awhile and get through other peoples heads on this board. McKenzie has been REALLY good this year and does not deserve the flack thrown his way in previous weeks. As Brad said, even when he has been beat this year he is usually in perfect coverage and the receiver has to make an amazing catch. That all said, props to both Chad and Carson telling it like it is.

This is very true. On that Lelie catch, MM had great coverage, but Lelie made a great play.

 

[NCSaint]

arent Johnson and McKenzie buddies?

 

[Danchrism]

Actually I disagree. That was the direction CBs WERE headed, and McKenzie at the time was the poster-boy but there were others.

I won't argue, because you know bucketloads more than I do, and I respect your opinions.

It is reasonable to project, however, that NFL players generally will just keep on getting bigger - taller, heavier, faster - through generational change, because that's what's happened over the decades, and not just in football. It's something I find interesting. For example, just how big can a guard get before he becomes ineffective? 400lb? More?

I've seen reports from medical experts that a 400lb lineman is not feasible because his heart won't be able to cope with the violent work his body will be required to put out. But I'm not so sure. You can bet medical experts were saying that about 300lb linemen in the past.

Back in those days they wouldn't list 300lb guys as such. They'd always be 285, 290 on paper. So you're right, weight at one time was a bit of taboo.

 

[VishaL]

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