Channeling Baghdad Bob (1 Viewer)

[SaintJ]

I swear, in 2007, I was prepared to consider this woman as a potential president. But with instance after instance of insisting that black is white and up is down, I'm pretty sure I'm not ready for another four to eight years of constantly having smoke blown up my kiester like I'm an idiot.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/04/24/campaign.wrap/index.html?iref=mpstoryview

If you're going to pass comments like this off as a complete truth in context, you're a liar. Plain and simple. L-I-A-R. She's been playing this game with her Republican counterparts and spiritual dopplegangers for so long she's lost all touch with reality.

"If you throw in one big state where we all agreed not to campaign and another one where I was on the ballot and the other guy wasn't, I'm ahead!"

I don't want anybody who communicates to me in a fashion even remotely related to this one anywhere near the White House. She should go someplace where people talk like this all the time: real estate.

 

[varanook]

Vote 3rd party.

 

[DavidM]

SoonerJim originally posted this but I'm not sure it survived the server move. Regardless, it seems appropriate here and highlights points I think many of her critics can relate to.

Why Hillary Makes My Wife Scream

My wife Barbara has begun yelling at the television set every time she hears Hillary Clinton. This is abnormal behavior, since Barbara is a meditative practitioner of everything peaceful and organic, and is inspired by Barack Obama's transformational appeal.

For Barbara, Hillary has become the screech on the blackboard. From First Lady to Lady Macbeth.

It's getting to me as well. Last year, I was somewhat reconciled to the prospect of supporting and pressuring Hillary as the nominee amidst the rising tide of my friends who already hated her, irrationally I thought. I was one of those people Barack accuses of being willing to settle. I even had framed a flattering autographed message from Hillary. But as the campaign has gone on and on, her signed portrait still leans against the wall in my study. I don't know where she belongs anymore.


http://www.thenation.com/doc/20080505/hayden

 

[Saint by the Bay]

I swear, in 2007, I was prepared to consider this woman as a potential president. But with instance after instance of insisting that black is white and up is down, I'm pretty sure I'm not ready for another four to eight years of constantly having smoke blown up my kiester like I'm an idiot.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/04/24/campaign.wrap/index.html?iref=mpstoryview

If you're going to pass comments like this off as a complete truth in context, you're a liar. Plain and simple. L-I-A-R. She's been playing this game with her Republican counterparts and spiritual dopplegangers for so long she's lost all touch with reality.

"If you throw in one big state where we all agreed not to campaign and another one where I was on the ballot and the other guy wasn't, I'm ahead!"

I don't want anybody who communicates to me in a fashion even remotely related to this one anywhere near the White House. She should go someplace where people talk like this all the time: real estate.

This has long been one of my problems with her and Bill.

All politicians spin and I'm not naive enough to think there's someone out there that's always going to give it to me straight. Obama is a king of spinning situations and comments to his favor. Heck McCain is about the closest I think your going to find to a straight shooter in Washington and he plays on the Merry Go Round 40% of the time. However, the Clinton's are just so brazen about it. I'm not sure if they actually believe we are this stupid or if the Clinton sycophants they surround themselves with have them believing people actually buy this crappola but their spin is simply ludicrous, intellectually dishonest and frankly insulting. It's like they don't feel like they even have to put in the effort to come up with plausible spin. How they even say some of this stuff without busting out laughing is beyond me.

 

[DadsDream]

I dunno, I'm kinda warming up to her. Not. :a_smil09:

"I want the Iranians to know that if I'm the president, we will attack Iran [if it attacked Israel].”"

"In the next 10 years, during which they might foolishly consider launching an attack on Israel, we would be able to totally obliterate them," she said. "That's a terrible thing to say but those people who run Iran need to understand that because that perhaps will deter them from doing something that would be reckless, foolish and tragic."

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.co...uld-pay-a-very-high-price-for-nuclear-attack/

 

[Severum]

It's a stupid argument even if you assume Michigan and Florida beauty contests count. Obama will almost certainly have the popular vote lead, including the MI and FL votes, going into the convention.

 

[Hoyasaint]

And if the Superdelegates decide for Hillary wham-o. Watch the democratic party implode and John McCain breeze to victory just by showing up.

 

[4saintspirit]

1st -- let me set the record straight -- I am a Republican and will likely vote republican -- I also hate Hillary with a passion -- that said I think the following

Lets look at some of the facts/myths relevant to this discussion:

1) Fla/Mich -- she killed Obama in Fla -- but he did not campaign -- all of the history says that when he campaigns in states where he is way behind he closes the gap significantly -- Ohio and Penn from 25 - 10 points down. Both were a lot closer until Hillary pulled out the negativity ads. Michigan is even different -- as theonly person on the ballot she could only must a little over 50% -- thats 40% that voted non - comitted -- that doesn't say much

2) She wins the big states needed to win the election -- well -- does anyone think that ithe Dems will lose New York, Mass, etc if Obama runs -- does anyone think she can win Texas cause she beat Obama -- now on the other hand - can Obama pull off an upset in some Republican states -- with the African American population in a lot of the Southern states I would say he has a pretty good chance -- especially in areas where there are a lot of colleges to go along with it -- electorally speaking I so not think there is a clear picture one way or the other

3) Hillary says she is more electable -- well the Republicans must beg to differ since they are paying for ads in the North Carolina primary attackicng Obama -- but lets look at what I think -- on one hand Hillary is well known -- nothing new about her is going to come out probably -- but then she has high negativity ratings and severe trust issues -- Obama -- we really dont know a whole lot about him but I have to think that if there were any other specks of dirt out there Hillary would have already thrown it at him -- so I got to think from a smear point of view the future will just rehash the current dirt thats out there. Now as for him being an African American -- I am sure there are many that will never vote for him because of his color -- however -- is it significantly more then the amount of people who will never vote for Hillary cause she is a women -- or the number who will never vote for McCain cause of his age -- All of this seems to come down to a wash -- no reason to throw Hillary the nomination cause no way to really tell based on facts

So where do I fall after my own analysis -- and do I have any other thoughts you probably will not read anyway = sure -- Obama deserves the nomination because he will have won the metrics set out in the beginning -- and he did so coming from obscurity -- and against the person who started with the strongest political machine, money and perceptions out of all candidates both dem and rep.

Finally -- here is my take -- While I am not for him and will vote for McCain I think he deserves the chance to run against McCain -- and if he does win the presidency I will give him a chance because IMO he will do the following -- 1) just winning will improve race relations and the self-respect, perception and confidence of all African Amercians - 2) Maybe instilling hope and confidence -- even if its just words- will help breathe some new life into America -- and 3) Be happy as a pig in a poke that the president is not named Hillary

 

[SaintJ]

2) She wins the big states needed to win the election -- well -- does anyone think that ithe Dems will lose New York, Mass, etc if Obama runs

I do admit to a Spockian eyebrow lift when she insisted that only she could carry D.C. against McCain.

 

[DavidM]

I do admit to a Spockian eyebrow lift when she insisted that only she could carry D.C. against McCain.

Was it after she took that shot?

 

[SaintJ]

Was it after she took that shot?

As either Leno or Conan pointed out, after that Ted Kennedy switched his endorsement.

Which reminds me.....

In one of PJ O'Rourke's great essays, this one about Russia, he spent some time analyzing the late Boris Yeltsin and some of his party habits. Apparently, on a state trip that included a stop in Ireland, because of an undetermined illness though not believed to be serious, Yeltsin was unable to deplane to greet the local head of state.

O'Rourke's comment: "Try to imagine being too drunk to meet the Prime Minister of Ireland."

 

[Sabine]

I swear, in 2007, I was prepared to consider this woman as a potential president. But with instance after instance of insisting that black is white and up is down, I'm pretty sure I'm not ready for another four to eight years of constantly having smoke blown up my kiester like I'm an idiot.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/04/24/campaign.wrap/index.html?iref=mpstoryview

If you're going to pass comments like this off as a complete truth in context, you're a liar. Plain and simple. L-I-A-R. She's been playing this game with her Republican counterparts and spiritual dopplegangers for so long she's lost all touch with reality.

"If you throw in one big state where we all agreed not to campaign and another one where I was on the ballot and the other guy wasn't, I'm ahead!"

I don't want anybody who communicates to me in a fashion even remotely related to this one anywhere near the White House. She should go someplace where people talk like this all the time: real estate.

What did she say that wasn't correct? And why not count Florida and Michigan. People did actually vote, and those states certified the votes.

Just because the DNC wants to punish Florida and Michigan for moving ahead of Super Tuesday doesn't mean that voting didn't take place. People voted.

If only Obama had left his name on the ballot, he would be able to take credit for more votes than he is now able to. He didn't, so it's anyone's guess what portion of the "uncommitted" votes in Michigan should be attributed to him.

That said, if we start bringing out the "if only's" where do we stop? "If only they had seen the NAFTA / Rev. Wright / Bosnia / Ayres / blah, blah, blah, story before voting..." "If only they had seen the debate / weren't in a closed primary state / weren't one of the thousands scheduled to work the night their state held its caucus / blah, blah, blah... Was Obama pandering to Iowa's desire to remain the first when he took his name off the Michigan ballot, and did that help him in Iowa? Did it hurt Clinton in Iowa by not doing the same in Michigan? Who really knows the answer to any of the above?

If you go with the known votes for a specific candidate, Clinton has the lead - for now. But what about Washington's screwing system? Do we estimate the primary votes or go with an estimate of the caucus that decided the delegates? If we do the latter, it benefits Obama's bottom line. What about Iowa, Nevada, and Maine, other states that didn't release numbers? Do we go with an estimate for those states too which we can't verify who got what? If we do, it benefit's Obama's bottom line. If you add in the estimates from Real Clear Politics on those four states, Clinton still has a slight lead.

Further, you want to talk about a candidate coloring the truth? The day Penn voted Obama was on the campaign trail talking up his "lead" in the popular vote as though it was decisively insurmountable. I heard that and thought, "Humm, Senator, you're taking a little license there...." A few hours later, ABC, MSNBC, and others were saying Clinton has taken the lead in the popular vote.

 

[jpcdolphan]

If only Obama had left his name on the ballot, he would be able to take credit for more votes than he is now able to. He didn't, so it's anyone's guess what portion of the "uncommitted" votes in Michigan should be attributed to him.

He would have only needed 20% of Michigan to exceed Hillary's totals in your version of what the popular vote total actually is.

Are you really saying that he would not have received that?

For all of the mocking reference to "Obamamaniacs" and such, I find it's the Hillary supporters that absolutely will not objectively look at things under any circumstances whatsoever...

 

[Hoyasaint]

What did she say that wasn't correct? And why not count Florida and Michigan. People did actually vote, and those states certified the votes.

Because the national party already said they wouldn't count prior to the election.

Just because the DNC wants to punish Florida and Michigan for moving ahead of Super Tuesday doesn't mean that voting didn't take place. People voted.

In something they knew wouldn't count.

If only Obama had left his name on the ballot, he would be able to take credit for more votes than he is now able to. He didn't, so it's anyone's guess what portion of the "uncommitted" votes in Michigan should be attributed to him.

No votes from Michigan should count for any person, per the rules set forth earlier by the DNC.

That said, if we start bringing out the "if only's" where do we stop? "If only they had seen the NAFTA / Rev. Wright / Bosnia / Ayres / blah, blah, blah, story before voting..." "If only they had seen the debate / weren't in a closed primary state / weren't one of the thousands scheduled to work the night their state held its caucus / blah, blah, blah... Was Obama pandering to Iowa's desire to remain the first when he took his name off the Michigan ballot, and did that help him in Iowa? Did it hurt Clinton in Iowa by not doing the same in Michigan? Who really knows the answer to any of the above?

If my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle

If you go with the known votes for a specific candidate, Clinton has the lead - for now. But what about Washington's screwing system? Do we estimate the primary votes or go with an estimate of the caucus that decided the delegates? If we do the latter, it benefits Obama's bottom line. What about Iowa, Nevada, and Maine, other states that didn't release numbers? Do we go with an estimate for those states too which we can't verify who got what? If we do, it benefit's Obama's bottom line. If you add in the estimates from Real Clear Politics on those four states, Clinton still has a slight lead.

If Clinton wins its going to be on the back of the Superdelegates. What happened to the people voted argument you made earlier?

Further, you want to talk about a candidate coloring the truth? The day Penn voted Obama was on the campaign trail talking up his "lead" in the popular vote as though it was decisively insurmountable. I heard that and thought, "Humm, Senator, you're taking a little license there...." A few hours later, ABC, MSNBC, and others were saying Clinton has taken the lead in the popular vote.

Sniper fire. Hillary Clinton will say and do anything that is politically expedient at the time. End of story. Stay with a repetitively cheating husband to help my career, move to a state with no ties to get elected, etc, etc, etc.

I do applaud you on your untiring defense of a woman for being a woman though.

 

[jpcdolphan]

Further, you want to talk about a candidate coloring the truth? The day Penn voted Obama was on the campaign trail talking up his "lead" in the popular vote as though it was decisively insurmountable.

It isn't?

I suppose if Hillary gets 60%+ in the remaining states from here on out, it's not. However, for all practical purposes, it is.

You can include Florida and Michigan if you want but we both know full well that, at least in the case of Michigan, if they get counted it will only be after some sort of a redo so that Obama can actually get some of the vote.