Charles Davis "Are we going to get the Robert Meachem guy who blows up … just trying to impress us and get the money?" (1 Viewer)

[guillermo]

I think what was written is fair, but it may change sooner or later.

Maybe Robert didn't play at all, but besides Bowe, Steve Smith (who had a great play-off run) and Sidney Rice, you can say that all the receivers taken disappointed.

Reality of the matter is that most rookie receivers have and will have disappointing first seasons, and you can even expect a better but not impressive second year for them.

I am not concern of Meachem not playing his first season. I think it was more worthy for him to look from the outside, get hungry and gather all of this locker room material. Even healthy we would not expect something more then maybe 25-20 catches and around 150-200 yards for the year.

Playing him on the first year would have made him one of the bunch, having patience with him (maybe) can make him special.

 

[meily]

What do you mean not doing his homework? There is nothing incorrect at all about what he said. Regardless of what we think/hope he does, the fact remains that he was not a productive member of this team after using a first round pick on him and until he proves otherwise, it is a fair label to place on him for his rookie season.

Now, if he had made mention to the reason he didnt contribute during the season, then I wouldnt take this article as another "stating the obvious" article...he only talked about the bad start he got off to after the draft....I didnt say it wasnt a fair label, I just think the shot he took was to easy.

 

[st dude]

Mickey Loomis admitted as much during an interview. He essentially said they underestimated the severity of the knee injury. To what extent Meachem may have tried to hide the severity of the knee problem is unknown.

Dan, I think thats the big issue here. Evaluating injuries is not an exact science by any means. Some are better at it than others.

I think the question in this case is did the Saints do the very best due diligence they could in evaluating the injury. Did other teams who passed on meachem know more about his knee? Did their doctor examine Meachem? Did the saints do an mri on his knee? Did they do everything they could knowing he had a bad knee to evaluate it? If they did and their doctors cleared him, I cant fault the Saints too much. Like I said, evaluating injuries is by no means an exact science. I bet they look a lot closer at first round picks with injury issues in the future.

 

[Domeination]

I think its very fair to criticize Meachem for showing up overweight to camp and the Saints for picking a guy who needed knee surgery before camp(this was a pre existing injury).

Meachem's first year was a bust and even if he does perform this year it doesnt change the fact we paid top money for a player who never saw the field. Most first round picks made significant contributions to their team as rookies.

All that being said, the jury is certainly still out on how good a player Meachem will eventually become. There is no doubt he has the talent to become a top NFL receiver. My guess is that if the saints had that pick to do over, they wouldnt pick Meachem. I just do not think they were a good enough team to pick a player in the first round who would not suit up.

In fairness to the Saints, maybe their doctors looked at his knee and didnt think it was bad enough to be a problem. I hope we pick a player this year in the first who is starting opening day. I hope Meachem is starting opening day.

I hear ya. I bet there are 31 NFL GMs who are glad they didn't pick Meachem in the first round last year. He can still become a good player, but I really can't get bent out of shape about someone using Meachem as a cautionary tale when picking a college receiver because of the way he showed up fat and unprepared for work last year.

 

[LSSpam]

Dan, I think thats the big issue here. Evaluating injuries is not an exact science by any means. Some are better at it than others.

I think the question in this case is did the Saints do the very best due diligence they could in evaluating the injury. Did other teams who passed on meachem know more about his knee? Did their doctor examine Meachem? Did the saints do an mri on his knee? Did they do everything they could knowing he had a bad knee to evaluate it? If they did and their doctors cleared him, I cant fault the Saints too much. Like I said, evaluating injuries is by no means an exact science. I bet they look a lot closer at first round picks with injury issues in the future.

The problem is there are only so many ways to "get ahead" talent-wise. If you want to consistently get good value on talent, either by finding players who are more talented their their draft position or their price tag (via Free Agency) if you have to roll the dice somewhere.

Players without warts just aren't available very often. If you're shopping at the dollar store (like any succesful team has too) there has to be some defect you're looking to overcome. Character concerns, "tweener", underachiever, overage, or, injury.

The Dallas Cowboys appear to be shopping based on character concerns (Tank Johnson, Terrell Owens, Pacman Jones, etc). The New England Patriots built their dynasty on tweeners and washed up veterans (Mike Vrabel, Kevin Faulk, Junior Seau, etc) The Saints, apparently, have been trying to get discounts on injured players.

Some have worked out well (Jammal Brown, Drew Brees, Deuce until recently), some haven't (Cie Grant, Chase Lyman) so we'll see how the current batch works out (Morgan, Vilma, Meachem) but the ultimate point is that if you want to "get ahead" in talent, you have to roll the dice some on these discounted players and hope you strike gold. The plethora of injury concerns is worrisome, but if it weren't players with injury histories it'd be players with character concerns (Dale Carter, Albert Connell), underachievers (Tebucky Jones), tweeners (Boo Williams), or washed up veterans (Brian Simmons, much to my dismay).

 

[TideSaint]

Didn't Meachem say after the draft that he never had any contact with the Saints and that when we took him he was completely suprised? How can you totally evaluate an injury when you never even bring the kid in to have it looked at? I think Loomis is trying to pull a fast one by making an excuse instead of just saying "we screwed up."

 

[ilikebushes]

The same thing can be said for the NBA with Odem as an example.....I think that Meachem shows alot more ability than Thomas....and as is the case w/ Odem....if you have a season ending injury as a young promising rookie....it doesnt mean that you busted your butt in preseason to get first round money and then hang out all year...its just unfortunate...this guy is out of his box trying to draw up this analogy.....

if any analogy like this should be made it should be made for players who put up big numbers in a season where there contract is up and then get paid....then in the following season looks slow......lazy...and just plain indifferent.........who can guess which current Saints player I'm referring to????

 

[REALCHRISM]

What do you mean not doing his homework? There is nothing incorrect at all about what he said. Regardless of what we think/hope he does, the fact remains that he was not a productive member of this team after using a first round pick on him and until he proves otherwise, it is a fair label to place on him for his rookie season.

I disagree. He tries to pass Meachem off as a guy only concerned with getting money and not becomng a productive player. That's a character attack for which Charles Davis has no empirical evidence to back up. Meachem did not miss last season because he was simply avaricious and got what he wanted; he missed last year because he was injured, got out-of-shape, exacerbated his injury very early on and got too far behind to make a reasonable contribution to the team.

The irony in all of this is that Charles Davis often talks as though he was a top flight defensive back. He was not. It amazes me how soon these guys forget their own playing days when they talk who should step up or perform better. Sean Salisbury is another guy who had that disease of amnesia where he forgot that he was a pretty marginal QB.

 

[pennstater]

I like how the saints always get players with a chip on their shoulder with something to prove.

Deuce dropping to the 23rd pick. Joe Horn never given a chance in KC. Brees being litterally a cast off from the chargers. Vilma skills getting neglected in NY. Mike Mckensie not getting what he deserved in Green Bay. Marques Colston selected in the 7th round.

With Meachem, I think he has alot to prove this season. If you combine heart with natural althetecism with a QB like Drew Brees throwing him the ball. I think that is a definte recipe for success.

 

[DavidM]

I think st dude has a pretty fair take.

Judging him on his rookie season, he's a disappointment. First round picks have to be ready to contribute. But accounts by Patten and coaches have been that Meachem is working hard to improve and compete.

Jimmy Smith was active for 7 games and had zero receptions in the three years following his selection. He went on to be one of the best players on the expansion Jaguars. Circumstances are different between the two situations, and I agree there has to be a return on investment pretty quickly (certainly not three years later) but the point is that it's way too soon to form a definitive opinion about Meachem as a pro player. He's off to a bad start, but there's a lot left undetermined.

 

[SAINTSFAN]

The problem is there are only so many ways to "get ahead" talent-wise. If you want to consistently get good value on talent, either by finding players who are more talented their their draft position or their price tag (via Free Agency) if you have to roll the dice somewhere.

Players without warts just aren't available very often. If you're shopping at the dollar store (like any succesful team has too) there has to be some defect you're looking to overcome. Character concerns, "tweener", underachiever, overage, or, injury.

The Dallas Cowboys appear to be shopping based on character concerns (Tank Johnson, Terrell Owens, Pacman Jones, etc). The New England Patriots built their dynasty on tweeners and washed up veterans (Mike Vrabel, Kevin Faulk, Junior Seau, etc) The Saints, apparently, have been trying to get discounts on injured players.

Some have worked out well (Jammal Brown, Drew Brees, Deuce until recently), some haven't (Cie Grant, Chase Lyman) so we'll see how the current batch works out (Morgan, Vilma, Meachem) but the ultimate point is that if you want to "get ahead" in talent, you have to roll the dice some on these discounted players and hope you strike gold. The plethora of injury concerns is worrisome, but if it weren't players with injury histories it'd be players with character concerns (Dale Carter, Albert Connell), underachievers (Tebucky Jones), tweeners (Boo Williams), or washed up veterans (Brian Simmons, much to my dismay).

The difference though is that Meachem was not a bargain at where he was selected. If he had fallen to round 2, I could see that rationale. He had only had one really good season prior to the draft and it was a draft with some solid WRs.

 

[SAINTSFAN]

I disagree. He tries to pass Meachem off as a guy only concerned with getting money and not becomng a productive player. That's a character attack for which Charles Davis has no empirical evidence to back up. Meachem did not miss last season because he was simply avaricious and got what he wanted; he missed last year because he was injured, got out-of-shape, exacerbated his injury very early on and got too far behind to make a reasonable contribution to the team.

The irony in all of this is that Charles Davis often talks as though he was a top flight defensive back. He was not. It amazes me how soon these guys forget their own playing days when they talk who should step up or perform better. Sean Salisbury is another guy who had that disease of amnesia where he forgot that he was a pretty marginal QB.

What has Meachem proven? Nothing. The knock on him at Tennessee was that he was very slow recovering from injuries and part of that was attributed (rightly or wrongly) to the effort in coming back (thus tabbed a "slow healer"). Meachem may have had an injury, but that is not what kept him out the whole season. It was clear he was not physically or mentally prepared. Until he proves something (hopefully this season), he deserves the label IMO.

 

[Guitarzan]

Although terming Robbie a bust is tough, the fact is he NEVER played. That's another in a long line of dubious distinctions that I'd rather the Saints not have. But to imply that he was only interested in getting paid seems to me like an uneducated and bombastic commentary.

 

[Knocker]

That's the problem with taking the best player available. Other teams pass on them, that's what makes them BPA. There may be a reason other teams pass. When you pick BPA you better be sure why other teams pass on them, especially when the DR's didn't evaluate him before the draft, as was the case with Meachem.

The FO didn't do their job in this case!

 

[REALCHRISM]

What has Meachem proven? Nothing. The knock on him at Tennessee was that he was very slow recovering from injuries and part of that was attributed (rightly or wrongly) to the effort in coming back (thus tabbed a "slow healer"). Meachem may have had an injury, but that is not what kept him out the whole season. It was clear he was not physically or mentally prepared. Until he proves something (hopefully this season), he deserves the label IMO.

I have not argued that he has proven anything. It is a fair statement to say that he has not. I am arguing that Charles Davis has may an unfair, unsubstantiated character attack on Meachem that he was simply out to get money and that's it. If that was the case, he would not be working so hard alongside David Patten to improve and get on the field where he can make a contribution.

And what label does he deserve? Disappointment? Yes. Of course. Absolutely. But hopefully you are not talking about the label of a bust. If that's the case, Deuce had to be a bust after his rookie year as well seeing as though he barely played and was healthy the entire season. And outside of a 54 yard TD run against Atlanta, he would have averaged only 2.5 yards-per-rush. He finished the season with 16 carries, 91 yards. That's disappointing, although we can also blame the coaching staff for not playing him more. Still, outside of a preseason game against Seattle in which Deuce ran 19 times for 108 yards, there was very little that he did to convince anyone that he was ready. I think you and others have every right to question Meachem and to even assert that he's been a huge disappointment. But to agree with Davis that he is or was out for simply money lacks tremendous weight without any evidence to back up such a claim. And to label him a bust, at this point, would be premature.