Chicago gets it's 500th homicide in 9 months... (1 Viewer)

MrVoodoo

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WHO'S TO BLAME?

There's a deeply rooted distrust of Chicago's police force.

The city's police department has been under review for months in the wake of high-profile officer-involved shootings, including that of Laquan McDonald.
This to me feels like sloppy reporting. Who's to blame section focusing on a distrust of the police force - yeah that can cause some issues, but 500 homicides? No sorry, that has very little to do with a distrust of a police force. The issue there is gangs, culture, and society in the area... it's a pretty sad situation to force so many tens of thousands of innocent people to fear for their lives on a daily basis because of the gang problems or revenge killings or whatever the heck is causing this. The way the reporter wrote the story (s)he's basically laying the blame on the distrust of police... that's like saying "Why did you kill your wife" - "because I don't like cops" - "but she's a florist?"
 

Saint_Ward

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Chicago has one of the more wide spread gang networks in the country. That's how they get guns outside of the area, that's why they have so many shootings, that's why the police narrative doesn't really fit.

There are issues with the police, but that has more to do with normal day to day stops exploding into deadly confrontations sporadically. It's not a common thing. The gun violence is gangs and turf battles / retaliations.

People have to separate out the ideas. Most of the complaints about police brutality mostly stems from brutality or death over petty interactions. Petty stops. Minor offenses that started the whole mess. At what point are you kicking a hornets nest for no good reason.

The gun violence isn't a response to kicking the nest. It's a whole different animal. And we can't mix the two up, or the poor honets are getting mistaken for the real issue.

Now, you can question it like this.. do communities go after the petty crimes, with the hope it will catch the bigger fish? Hard to catch a homicide before it happens. But can you catch a guy on a drug offense hoping that you got him before he pulled the trigger for something? I'd rather it be the dealer being stopped vs the user, since usage isn't exactly connected to crimes, unless it's hard drugs. Odds are a meth head or heroin junkie will eventually start to steal to maintain their habit. Predicting violence is tricky though.

Anyway, chasing too many rabbits on that one. The point is, I agree that using the blue line vs BLM narrative seems lazy and misleading.
 

coldseat

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That's really sad. What's worse is nobody seems to have an answer. It's become popular to say more jobs will fix the problem (Donald Trump effect), but I don't see jobs as being the answer or problem. The unemployment rate in Chicago isn't that high to start with. It may help, but this problem goes deeper. And New Orleans is in the same boat.
 

SystemShock

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This to me feels like sloppy reporting. Who's to blame section focusing on a distrust of the police force - yeah that can cause some issues, but 500 homicides?
It's not the root cause of 500 homicides, but I feel it is reasonable to think, people who mistrust police may be willing to seek justice, or even revenge, for themselves, and therefore that mistrust plays a part in compounding the problem.
 
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superchuck500

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That's really sad. What's worse is nobody seems to have an answer. It's become popular to say more jobs will fix the problem (Donald Trump effect), but I don't see jobs as being the answer or problem. The unemployment rate in Chicago isn't that high to start with. It may help, but this problem goes deeper. And New Orleans is in the same boat.

I'm starting to think that maybe taco trucks really are the answer.
 

MrVoodoo

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It's not be the root cause of 500 homicides, but I feel it is reasonable to think, people who mistrust police may be willing to seek justice, or even revenge, for themselves, and therefore plays a part in compounding the problem.
I don't disagree that it plays a part - but for it to be the main focus of the Who's to blame section?
 

efil4stnias

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That's really sad. What's worse is nobody seems to have an answer. It's become popular to say more jobs will fix the problem (Donald Trump effect), but I don't see jobs as being the answer or problem. The unemployment rate in Chicago isn't that high to start with. It may help, but this problem goes deeper. And New Orleans is in the same boat.
we just returned this morning from Chicago.

that city is "segregated". Not to the extent of signage or whatever, but the african american community is predominately in the South and West side...which is where 80% of the violence takes place.

it was evident to us there as it is here. Certain areas are just cut off ( either by waterways or lack of transportation ) and so those areas "fester" with the violence.

there is a much deeper issue at hand there as you said and im not exactly sure what it is, but its clear certain areas are just not affected by the violence like other parts of that city.
 
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Pftt, amateurs...

Philippine war against drugs claims 44 lives a day: police report - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Police have killed 1,033 people in anti-drug operations since President Duterte was sworn into office just over two months ago, according to the national police update on Tuesday.

Another 1,894 people have died in unexplained deaths, police said, which rights groups believe are largely due to out-of-control security forces and hired assassins.

The total of 2,927 is more than 500 higher than the figure released by police on Sunday, and equates to an average of 44 a day since Mr Duterte took office on June 30.
That's in only 2 months.
 

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I don't disagree that it plays a part - but for it to be the main focus of the Who's to blame section?
I don't know that it is the main focus, but I don't think I can say either way unless I lived in that community. I don't know how deep that mistrust runs, and when you truly mistrust the authorities, who (or what) do you turn to?

edit: wish people will actually present a counterpoint, other than a red thumb. I guess some people think police are above reproach at all times.
 

bigdaddysaints

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I'm confused. has there been 500 homicides, or 500 murders? maybe people don't know the difference.
just because it's a homicide, doesn't necessarily make it a murder.
did they just mislabel the article, or just use the word homicide to inflate the numbers?

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
 

efil4stnias

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I'm confused. has there been 500 homicides, or 500 murders? maybe people don't know the difference.
just because it's a homicide, doesn't necessarily make it a murder.
did they just mislabel the article, or just use the word homicide to inflate the numbers?

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
500 people were killed by gun violence...hows that?

Murder is a form of homicide, ( intent ) but its still considered "homicide". The article isnt all that confusing...500 peoples lives were taken by gun violence.

Whether intent was there or not is irrelevant. They are speaking on the rash of killing in Chicago. If 20 of those 500 were "self-defense" ( aka Justifiable Homicide ) that represents .04 of the total number of homicides. ( if thats what you are alluding to "inflating numbers" )

So including "murders" in with homicides is perfectly fine, because it all falls under homicide.
 

JimEverett

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I think one of the many odd things during the Obama presidency has been the focus, usually by conservatives, on Chicago's violence.

Odd for many reasons, but mostly because there are quite a lot of cities with murder rates much higher than Chicago's.
 

MrVoodoo

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I don't know that it is the main focus, but I don't think I can say either way unless I lived in that community. I don't know how deep that mistrust runs, and when you truly mistrust the authorities, who (or what) do you turn to?

edit: wish people will actually present a counterpoint, other than a red thumb. I guess some people think police are above reproach at all times.
When you write an article like this and you make a point to try to address "Who's to blame" - you start with what should be the primary reason. Here they start with the police and make the offhanded statement "But the other side of this battle is the street crime." That puts street crime as a secondary reason to issues with the Police. Then the article dismisses the issue of economics by saying that unemployment rates dropped. Yes, the primary focus in this article as a reason to why these happen is the Police.


Now in regards to mistrusting authorities as you say, "who (or what) do you turn to?" You turn to social leaders and social programs to work out the root cause. Crime is so rampant there - mistrust of police does not cause crime, sure it may cause someone to take things into their own hands - but it doesn't cause the situation that created that. You can't justify murdering someone because you don't trust the authorities... that makes you worse (or in some cases just as bad) than those authorities you don't trust.

Regardless of how you personally feel about police, regardless of the issues of police brutality, regardless of the police period - the police cannot be causation of 500 homicides (with the exception of situations like the Philippines where it appears that police are executing drug dealers/users on the streets).
 

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