Chris Ivory Scouting Report (1 Viewer)

[bclemms]

I know that they do. I made no assumptions as to our staff’s infallibility. And my point is that this staff in particular has shown the resolve to rectify issues as soon as they are evident. Case in point; the firing of Spagnuolo, a coach that Payton was really looking forward to working with, and never got to. So, if there is an error in Ivory not playing as much as we may think he should, given their history, why wouldn’t they rectify it ASAP?

Exactly how would Payton have rectified it in the last two weeks? He can't give Ivory more carries now, the season is over. We wont know if he wants to treat the situation differently until next season unless one of the players is traded or cut between now and then.

They have access to knowledge that we do not. And their job is on the line, while ours are not. Yes, stubbornness and pride can and do result in personnel mistakes, as well as coaches losing jobs, but so can playing a player that may miss too many assignments, or lacks an understanding of the system being run, or has a personality conflict with another player or coach, or depending on a player who can’t stay on the field. Look at what Lomas Brown admitted to earlier this year. That type of thing could happen anywhere. I just refuse to believe that Ivory is a victim of blind loyalty to Ingram.

Let me try to convince you one more time. Do you think PT and Sproles were also missing too many assignments and the only player doing what they were supposed to was Ingram? Here is why I ask.
In 2011 our backs combined for 398 carries. In 2012 our backs combined for 349 carries. Our RB's carried the ball 49 less times. Ingram is the only RB who got more carries in 2012 with 34 more carries than in 2011. So lets see where the carries went for the other three backs. Ingram had 34 more carries, plus the backs as a group had 49 less carries for a total of 83 carries. Ivory and Sproles both had 39 less carries than last season and PT had 5 less carries than last season for a total of 83 carries. In other words if you take the carries PT, Ivory and Sproles lost this season, subtract the net loss of number of total carries as a unit from last season then it just so happens to add up to the exact number of additional carries Ingram got this season. There is no way in hell that is by chance.

One last try.

Percent of teams rushes:
2011
Ingram- 31%
PT- 28%
Sproles- 22%
Ivory- 20%



2012
Ingram- 45%
PT- 26%
Sproles- 16%
Ivory- 12%

How can anyone not see what happened here? Everyone got less carries except Ingram, he got more. How can anyone look at that and try to say the coaches weren't favoring Ingram?

On a side note: If you list the 4 backs in order of most ypc it is the exact opposite of the backs with the most carries.

 

[crosswatt]

Exactly how would Payton have rectified it in the last two weeks? He can't give Ivory more carries now, the season is over. We wont know if he wants to treat the situation differently until next season unless one of the players is traded or cut between now and then.

Let me try to convince you one more time. Do you think PT and Sproles were also missing too many assignments and the only player doing what they were supposed to was Ingram? Here is why I ask.
In 2011 our backs combined for 398 carries. In 2012 our backs combined for 349 carries. Our RB's carried the ball 49 less times. Ingram is the only RB who got more carries in 2012 with 34 more carries than in 2011. So lets see where the carries went for the other three backs. Ingram had 34 more carries, plus the backs as a group had 49 less carries for a total of 83 carries. Ivory and Sproles both had 39 less carries than last season and PT had 5 less carries than last season for a total of 83 carries. In other words if you take the carries PT, Ivory and Sproles lost this season, subtract the net loss of number of total carries as a unit from last season then it just so happens to add up to the exact number of additional carries Ingram got this season. There is no way in hell that is by chance.

One last try.

Percent of teams rushes:
2011
Ingram- 31%
PT- 28%
Sproles- 22%
Ivory- 20%



2012
Ingram- 45%
PT- 26%
Sproles- 16%
Ivory- 12%

How can anyone not see what happened here? Everyone got less carries except Ingram, he got more. How can anyone look at that and try to say the coaches weren't favoring Ingram?

I'm just saying there is a reason why the favored him. And we don't know why.

 

[crosswatt]

On a side note: If you list the 4 backs in order of most ypc it is the exact opposite of the backs with the most carries.

I think that would be a normal occurrence, unless we are talking Barry Sanders.

 

[Kurgan]

Were they favoring ingram to be able to trade him?

 

[sheltonwhodat]

Ivory runs circles around Ingram but we wont get to see how much better than Ingram he is until he leaves New Orleans.

Anyone claiming Ingram is better than Ivory is nuts and will run through a wall to avoid looking at the stats that prove it. The only thing Ingram does better is stay healthier and he doesn't even do that well.

You will hear people on this board claim Ivory is terrible in the passing game and that Ingram is so much better. Ingram had 6 catches this season, Ivory had 2 catches but Ingram got 3 times the playing time. Neither back has had the chance to prove whether they can or can not catch out of the backfield.

Ivory is bigger, he is stronger, he is faster, he has a better blend of moves, he averages more yards per carry, he has longer runs and he is just a much better running back. Chris Ivory is the biggest single travesty on offense in the Payton era.

Plz plz plz save this ...you know what I will take a picture of this. You will learn a lot this year about Ingram.

 

[bclemms]

I think that would be a normal occurrence, unless we are talking Barry Sanders.

Looking around the league, it is very rare to see multiple all purpose backs splitting time with a big difference in ypc and the lower ypc back getting more carries. It is very rare to see 3-4 RBs being flipped completely upside down like we managed.

Looking at the Saints under Payton.

2006 it went in order from best ypc to lowest with Deuce getting the most carries.

2007 it flipped upside down when we were force feeding Bush and the lowest ypc guy got the most carries

2008 it went from highest ypc to lowest ypc

2009 it went from highest ypc to lowest ypc if you consider Bush a 3rd down back which he was in 2009.

2010 Ivory had the best ypc by a mile and he had the most carries by a mile, after that it was a cluster....

2011- It was a nice mix with Sproles having the highet ypc but he wasn't our every down back. PT had the most carries and had a high ypc. The only two backs out of place were Ingram and Ivory. Ingram got more carries, Ivory had a better ypc.

2012 it went from lowest to highest, the opposite of what you want. It is the second time it happened in the Payton era, both times when we force fed a RB we drafted in the first round in his second season. The two times this has happened are also the two worst seasons in the Payton era.

 

[jrdbrn]

He's hurt every year... so?

 

[bclemms]

Plz plz plz save this ...you know what I will take a picture of this. You will learn a lot this year about Ingram.

Remember it, write it down, take a picture, I don't give a ****!

Quick, name the last RB who was a 1st round pick that got plenty of carries his first two seasons and didn't break out until his third season.

Every single person defending Ingram comes with junk like this because there isn't a single stat in any form or fashion to back it up. Not one stat from the normal stats, premium stats or even imaginary stats that show Ingram is capable of being compared on the same level as Ivory, PT, Sproles or even a lot of the guys drafted after him. Not only has he not been productive but he has been counter productive by taking snaps from legit NFL backs.

The only thing that anyone comes with are conspiracy theories about missed assignments, the you'll see next season or the season after that or maybe in 2017 but you'll see eventually or excuses about how the line isn't blocking good despite [size=+2]3[/size] other RBs being quite productive behind the same line for years.

 

[saint_cajun78]

All I know is we have too many RB on the active roster and we need to condense that down to two. When you have four RB's it tips your hand to the opposing defense as to what type of play your gonna run.

 

[whodat??]

Quick, name the last RB who was a 1st round pick that got plenty of carries his first two seasons and didn't break out until his third season.

Darren McFadden,

 

[whodat??]

All I know is we have too many RB on the active roster and we need to condense that down to two. When you have four RB's it tips your hand to the opposing defense as to what type of play your gonna run.

I don't see us ever having less than 4 running backs on our roster going forward. Nightmares of Desean Wynn and Julio Jones still haunt me.

 

[meily]

I think our offense in general wears down defenses. I don't think Ingram and Ivory would wear them down any more than our normal offense would with Graham, Colston, Thomas, Moore, etc.

This is more in reference to the run game...

 

[meily]

Exactly how would Payton have rectified it in the last two weeks? He can't give Ivory more carries now, the season is over. We wont know if he wants to treat the situation differently until next season unless one of the players is traded or cut between now and then.

Let me try to convince you one more time. Do you think PT and Sproles were also missing too many assignments and the only player doing what they were supposed to was Ingram? Here is why I ask.
In 2011 our backs combined for 398 carries. In 2012 our backs combined for 349 carries. Our RB's carried the ball 49 less times. Ingram is the only RB who got more carries in 2012 with 34 more carries than in 2011. So lets see where the carries went for the other three backs. Ingram had 34 more carries, plus the backs as a group had 49 less carries for a total of 83 carries. Ivory and Sproles both had 39 less carries than last season and PT had 5 less carries than last season for a total of 83 carries. In other words if you take the carries PT, Ivory and Sproles lost this season, subtract the net loss of number of total carries as a unit from last season then it just so happens to add up to the exact number of additional carries Ingram got this season. There is no way in hell that is by chance.

One last try.

Percent of teams rushes:
2011
Ingram- 31%
PT- 28%
Sproles- 22%
Ivory- 20%



2012
Ingram- 45%
PT- 26%
Sproles- 16%
Ivory- 12%

How can anyone not see what happened here? Everyone got less carries except Ingram, he got more. How can anyone look at that and try to say the coaches weren't favoring Ingram?

On a side note: If you list the 4 backs in order of most ypc it is the exact opposite of the backs with the most carries.

They "favored" him because they drafted him to be the bell cow...we keep arguing about who is better when the whole matter is who was chosen...we have to many back on this roster talented enough to be featured and we are going to keep arguing about who should be featured and coming up with conspiracies as to why a fans preferred player is not getting the carries they think he should get...but its really just that simple...he was drafted to be the guy...over your guy...and thats why people hate Ingram.

 

[mither_rome]

Exactly how would Payton have rectified it in the last two weeks? He can't give Ivory more carries now, the season is over. We wont know if he wants to treat the situation differently until next season unless one of the players is traded or cut between now and then.

Let me try to convince you one more time. Do you think PT and Sproles were also missing too many assignments and the only player doing what they were supposed to was Ingram? Here is why I ask.
In 2011 our backs combined for 398 carries. In 2012 our backs combined for 349 carries. Our RB's carried the ball 49 less times. Ingram is the only RB who got more carries in 2012 with 34 more carries than in 2011. So lets see where the carries went for the other three backs. Ingram had 34 more carries, plus the backs as a group had 49 less carries for a total of 83 carries. Ivory and Sproles both had 39 less carries than last season and PT had 5 less carries than last season for a total of 83 carries. In other words if you take the carries PT, Ivory and Sproles lost this season, subtract the net loss of number of total carries as a unit from last season then it just so happens to add up to the exact number of additional carries Ingram got this season. There is no way in hell that is by chance.

One last try.

Percent of teams rushes:
2011
Ingram- 31%
PT- 28%
Sproles- 22%
Ivory- 20%



2012
Ingram- 45%
PT- 26%
Sproles- 16%
Ivory- 12%

How can anyone not see what happened here? Everyone got less carries except Ingram, he got more. How can anyone look at that and try to say the coaches weren't favoring Ingram?

On a side note: If you list the 4 backs in order of most ypc it is the exact opposite of the backs with the most carries.

I hope Ingram improves his ypc next year, and becomes a more consistent running back in general, but given last season's lackluster production, it is absolutely criminal that his was given almost twice as many carries as a healthy PT. Say what you want about Ivory - I believe he's the best pure runner on the team (just my opinion), but the fact that PT got a quarter of the carries when he's such a huge play action threat both unning and catching, is an absolute joke.

The most telling stat - and keep in mind, this was still Sean Payton's offense, albeit with substitute play calling - Ingram accounted for 45 percent of the rushes, but only had 6 receptions for 29 yards. While only accounting for 25% of the total rushes, PT managed 39 receptions, equalling his very effective reception total in 2009. That's what you call telegraphing with your personnel.

I'm not down on the Ingram pick. I still think that he has a tremendous amount to offer, but the coaches were absolutely blind last season when it came to their stable of running backs.

 

[bclemms]

I don't see us ever having less than 4 running backs on our roster going forward. Nightmares of Desean Wynn and Julio Jones still haunt me.

Yep, they were terrible but they at least got 4 ypc. It pained me to watch them but they were all that was left. Imagine watching them getting the majority of snaps over healthy PT, Sproles and Ivory.