Climate Change Denial (3 Viewers)

mt15

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I just read about this island in Louisiana that has nearly disappeared. You all may already know about this, but this is new to me.

One of the worst things about this administration is it’s science denial. Trump isn’t very smart nor is he well educated. This has permeated the entire administration. It’s yet one more way Trump is hurting the very people he says he is helping.

I know we had a thread an this originally, but it was past two pages back, so I decided to start a new one. I know this case isn’t completely due to climate change, but as the article points out, in the future there will be many cases like this.

http://www.businessinsider.com/isle-de-jean-charles-climate-change-refugees-2018-4
 

saintmdterps

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Smith Island in the Chesapeake Bay is also disappearing. The island once had a population of 850 but is now down to less than half of that. The people there are mostly conservative and were climate change deniers, but now are saying in essence "I don't know and I don't care what's causing it, but please save our island"

My former roommate is from the Island. Good people, almost entirely watermen. His dad was on the cover of National Geographic many moons ago.
 

Stealth Matrix

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In the case of Southeast Louisiana, you're never going to receive a solution to the receding wetlands until you come to the realization that the primary cause is not "The Climate" as "The Climate" doesn't have anything to do with starving the wetlands of vital soil and nutrients they need to sustain. But you know what might actually be a cause of that? The damming up of the Mississippi River and the prevention of its' natural, annual flooding of the lands.

When you stop blaming environmental changes on a singular buzzphrase then perhaps some real progress can be analyzed and implemented when it comes to specific issues. Mississippi River aside, when you look at many of the issues you can chalk many of them off to natural processes of the Earth. Sure, not nearly all of them, but enough of them that one could see why some people choose not to "believe".
 

guidomerkinsrules

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In the case of Southeast Louisiana, you're never going to receive a solution to the receding wetlands until you come to the realization that the primary cause is not "The Climate" as "The Climate" doesn't have anything to do with starving the wetlands of vital soil and nutrients they need to sustain. But you know what might actually be a cause of that? The damming up of the Mississippi River and the prevention of its' natural, annual flooding of the lands.

When you stop blaming environmental changes on a singular buzzphrase then perhaps some real progress can be analyzed and implemented when it comes to specific issues. Mississippi River aside, when you look at many of the issues you can chalk many of them off to natural processes of the Earth. Sure, not nearly all of them, but enough of them that one could see why some people choose not to "believe".
How about “industry, don’t brutalize nature” or even more “”industry, if you broke nature you have to fix it” ?
Seems to cover both concerns
 

Devildog

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In the case of Southeast Louisiana, you're never going to receive a solution to the receding wetlands until you come to the realization that the primary cause is not "The Climate" as "The Climate" doesn't have anything to do with starving the wetlands of vital soil and nutrients they need to sustain. But you know what might actually be a cause of that? The damming up of the Mississippi River and the prevention of its' natural, annual flooding of the lands.

When you stop blaming environmental changes on a singular buzzphrase then perhaps some real progress can be analyzed and implemented when it comes to specific issues. Mississippi River aside, when you look at many of the issues you can chalk many of them off to natural processes of the Earth. Sure, not nearly all of them, but enough of them that one could see why some people choose not to "believe".
Sure. It's not the main cause of losing the wetlands, but it does play an equal part. Between oil companies carving out the wetlands with no regard to wildlife and the habitat in which they live, the damming of the river to not allow sediment to be deposited, and climate change (sorry, but it's real), this is a problem that has no easy solution. But to brush off one reason that is as important as the others (arguably more) is monumentally ignorant.
 

lades

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The powers that be would rather make profits today than to deal with tomorrow's expensive problems. They aren't stupid. They know what the science is - what the facts are. They just don't care. Much like the tobacco industry.
 

RetroMcBananaFace

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When you stop blaming environmental changes on a singular buzzphrase
First off, thanks for being some real thought to the topic and you are certainly correct about there being other contributing causes besides simple weather.

But in regards to the above, what exactly is wrong with the phrase "climate change?" "Climate" is a broad categorization of weather patterns. "Change" is well, change.

When you say to me that the phrase "climate change" is a buzzphrase and suggest that the use of words that simply describe a problem as being a cause of agitation to certain people, it seems to me there is an issue with those people, not the words being somehow inflammatory.

They already changed it from "global warming" to "climate change" because everytime it got cold slackjaws would be all "global warming LOL" without recognizing it's part of a larger pattern. Do we have to keep dumbing down the words until we find something that makes people happy? Or at some point can we find a way to explain that "climate change" means nothing more than "the climate is changing" and that it's not some vast librul conspiracy designed to sweep the legs out from underneath the working class or whatever.

Otherwise, I agree with the above. Industry doesn't care, the politicians certainly don't seem to care, and among the general populace, conservatives have been manipulated not to care and liberals have given up caring because they are vastly outnumbered.
 

Heathen Saint

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When you stop blaming environmental changes on a singular buzzphrase then perhaps some real progress can be analyzed and implemented when it comes to specific issues. Mississippi River aside, when you look at many of the issues you can chalk many of them off to natural processes of the Earth. Sure, not nearly all of them, but enough of them that one could see why some people choose not to "believe".
So you're very ready and willing to accept the science that points to processes other than rising sea levels causing land erosion, but stop dead on the mark at any mention of "climate change"?

It's not the fault of the scientists doing research into these issues that the GOP, cozy in bed with the fossil fuel industry, has scared their base into thinking certain scientific backed consensus require "belief" (ie evolution of organisms). It's just the sad state of proud science denial in America today.
 

porculator

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Sure. It's not the main cause of losing the wetlands, but it does play an equal part. Between oil companies carving out the wetlands with no regard to wildlife and the habitat in which they live, the damming of the river to not allow sediment to be deposited, and climate change (sorry, but it's real), this is a problem that has no easy solution. But to brush off one reason that is as important as the others (arguably more) is monumentally ignorant.
In Louisiana's case it is nowhere near an equal part compared to the devastation from the oil companies and sediment loss from the levees.

But that's no excuse for ignoring global warming. There is enough devastation out there between the arctic melting, barrier reefs bleaching, and yes, sea rise, that it is pretty damn clear what is happening.

Unfortunately the burden of proof is higher for the scientific community when it has to reach people who are inconvenienced by their findings. The slightest false claim will give the windowlickers of the world all the ammo they need to conclude that science isn't real. Of course the climate chicken littles don't help, making exaggerated claims and predictions that are proven wrong a few years later.
 

Goatman Saint

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I have never understood why there is such a problem with taking care of the world we live in. We have the money, we have the technology. To let things like this continue, to write off climate change as fake news to me is appalling. If we can add a bit here and there to make the world we live in a better place why not? Why can’t some controlled flooding and mudflow be allowed to go to the coastline? I mean all the dredging and such why can’t it be sent with some water to rebuild this area? Ah but no. Claim fake science, fake news and let it wash away acre by acre.
 

Devildog

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In Louisiana's case it is nowhere near an equal part compared to the devastation from the oil companies and sediment loss from the levees.

But that's no excuse for ignoring global warming. There is enough devastation out there between the arctic melting, barrier reefs bleaching, and yes, sea rise, that it is pretty damn clear what is happening.

Unfortunately the burden of proof is higher for the scientific community when it has to reach people who are inconvenienced by their findings. The slightest false claim will give the windowlickers of the world all the ammo they need to conclude that science isn't real. Of course the climate chicken littles don't help, making exaggerated claims and predictions that are proven wrong a few years later.
If you factor in sea rise with the other things you and I both mentioned, it is my opinion that it does play a significant part. Maybe not right on par with the others, but it's right there as an almost equal factor. But I agree with everything else you said.
 

rob22278

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Why can’t some controlled flooding and mudflow be allowed to go to the coastline? I mean all the dredging and such why can’t it be sent with some water to rebuild this area?
This has been happening for years.
 

Brennan77

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I have never understood why there is such a problem with taking care of the world we live in. We have the money, we have the technology. To let things like this continue, to write off climate change as fake news to me is appalling. If we can add a bit here and there to make the world we live in a better place why not? Why can’t some controlled flooding and mudflow be allowed to go to the coastline? I mean all the dredging and such why can’t it be sent with some water to rebuild this area? Ah but no. Claim fake science, fake news and let it wash away acre by acre.
For the same reason navigable waterways are being closed to public access. The wetlands are a complicated mess of private property rights and liabilities.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
 

porculator

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If you factor in sea rise with the other things you and I both mentioned, it is my opinion that it does play a significant part. Maybe not right on par with the others, but it's right there as an almost equal factor. But I agree with everything else you said.
Forgot to mention the nitrates from farms up the Mississippi sucking oxygen out of the water and creating dead zones when deposited in the gulf. Even if we allowed the river to flood the way it is meant to and re-sediment the wetlands, the water is basically poisonous as long as current farming practices in the midwest continue.

So 4 big factors working against us. It's really like someone just created a recipe for how to destroy marshes and we are following it to a tee.
 

Devildog

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Forgot to mention the nitrates from farms up the Mississippi sucking oxygen out of the water and creating dead zones when deposited in the gulf. Even if we allowed the river to flood the way it is meant to and re-sediment the wetlands, the water is basically poisonous as long as current farming practices in the midwest continue.

So 4 big factors working against us. It's really like someone just created a recipe for how to destroy marshes and we are following it to a tee.
Yikes. Yeah, I forgot about that.
 

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