Climate Change Denial

mt15

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I just read about this island in Louisiana that has nearly disappeared. You all may already know about this, but this is new to me.

One of the worst things about this administration is it’s science denial. Trump isn’t very smart nor is he well educated. This has permeated the entire administration. It’s yet one more way Trump is hurting the very people he says he is helping.

I know we had a thread an this originally, but it was past two pages back, so I decided to start a new one. I know this case isn’t completely due to climate change, but as the article points out, in the future there will be many cases like this.

http://www.businessinsider.com/isle-de-jean-charles-climate-change-refugees-2018-4
 

Taurus

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Yes.

I support any actions that reduce polluting the ocean and the air.

I support phasing out fossil fuels.

I don’t think we can say that CO2 levels have never increased so quickly because the way we measure that isn’t precise enough to narrow down a 50 year period from 100,000 years ago on a global scale.
Sure we can. Just look for the results of such a change.
Ice cores and sea mud cores are like time capsules that reveal what Earth's atmospheric chemistry was like when each layer was deposited. You can go year-by-year and measure.

Now, if you want to get really worried, combine global dimming with global warming and see what we'd get if we just cleaned up the atmosphere and reduced visible pollution without taking CO2 into account.

Right now, us humans are like someone who's crawled under a thick set of blankets (CO2) and turned down the thermostat (global dimming). We're warming things up, but we're not getting as much heat from external sources as we used to. If we crank up the thermostat without removing those blankets, we'll toast ourselves in a hurry.
 

insidejob

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Sure we can. Just look for the results of such a change.
Ice cores and sea mud cores are like time capsules that reveal what Earth's atmospheric chemistry was like when each layer was deposited. You can go year-by-year and measure.

Now, if you want to get really worried, combine global dimming with global warming and see what we'd get if we just cleaned up the atmosphere and reduced visible pollution without taking CO2 into account.

Right now, us humans are like someone who's crawled under a thick set of blankets (CO2) and turned down the thermostat (global dimming). We're warming things up, but we're not getting as much heat from external sources as we used to. If we crank up the thermostat without removing those blankets, we'll toast ourselves in a hurry.
Dude, thank you for the dumbed down explanation of that for me. Science has never been a strong suit of mine though I've always had a basic understanding of climate change/greenhouse gas effects. Your explanation makes it easy to visualize and digest.
 

WhoDatPhan78

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Sure we can. Just look for the results of such a change.
Ice cores and sea mud cores are like time capsules that reveal what Earth's atmospheric chemistry was like when each layer was deposited. You can go year-by-year and measure.

Now, if you want to get really worried, combine global dimming with global warming and see what we'd get if we just cleaned up the atmosphere and reduced visible pollution without taking CO2 into account.

Right now, us humans are like someone who's crawled under a thick set of blankets (CO2) and turned down the thermostat (global dimming). We're warming things up, but we're not getting as much heat from external sources as we used to. If we crank up the thermostat without removing those blankets, we'll toast ourselves in a hurry.
Yea, I understand how it works. I have not been convinced that we can accurately extrapolate the incomplete record to a global scale with enough precision to rule out unaccounted for precipitous increases in carbon levels over a 100 year period.

As far as the greenhouse effect, I’m in 100% agreement with you. That science is not reliant on extrapolation or hundreds of thousands year old data. We shouldn’t pollute the earth.

It may be that we are heating up the earth faster during a normal period of global warming. We might stop all pollution and the warming could still continue. That wouldn’t mean that stopping pollution was a bad idea.

We should be equally preparing to adapt to climate change as we are to prevent it. Maybe we already are. We should have no problem doing both.
 

WhoDatPhan78

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That's not really true, the atmospheric CO2 level in ice core provide a very good estimate of CO2 level in the past 800000 year
The record shows spikes in CO2 levels in immediately preceding ice ages. As far as I know, they don’t know for sure what causes these spikes. At least that’s what I was taught in my the only geology class I took in college.

We may be polluting during a natural spike in CO2 . It’s still not a good thing that we are polluting.
 

Goatman Saint

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Ice ages are heavy precipitation events. Once all this starts to warm up, evaporation starts to increase dramatically. Which creates cooler temperatures due to thick cloud blankets. If we don’t cook ourselves first, earth will readjust in a way that we will like even less.
 

WhoDatPhan78

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Ice ages are heavy precipitation events. Once all this starts to warm up, evaporation starts to increase dramatically. Which creates cooler temperatures due to thick cloud blankets. If we don’t cook ourselves first, earth will readjust in a way that we will like even less.
Yea, I caps melting decreases ocean salinity, which makes the ocean water evaporate more quickly... things can change relatively quickly once things start a feedback loop.

It’s a process that going to happen, and we should Not do things that change any variables involved.
 

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Yea, I caps melting decreases ocean salinity, which makes the ocean water evaporate more quickly... things can change relatively quickly once things start a feedback loop.

It’s a process that going to happen, and we should Not do things that change any variables involved.
But we already did. We put a huge amount of CO2 in the air. We need to get it out if for no other reason than to prevent/reverse ocean acidification.

That science doesn't rely at all on extrapolation, we're witnessing the effects right this very minute.



Climate change is irrelevant in this. Whether we can find 100 year spikes in CO2 from the past is irrelevant to this. We're seeing a spike in CO2 now. A spike unarguably caused by humans. The effects of it are being seen now.

Unless you've got a replacement for the bottom of the entire ocean food chain, we need to decrease CO2. End of story.
 

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WhoDatPhan78

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But we already did. We put a huge amount of CO2 in the air. We need to get it out if for no other reason than to prevent/reverse ocean acidification.

That science doesn't rely at all on extrapolation, we're witnessing the effects right this very minute.



Climate change is irrelevant in this. Whether we can find 100 year spikes in CO2 from the past is irrelevant to this. We're seeing a spike in CO2 now. A spike unarguably caused by humans. The effects of it are being seen now.

Unless you've got a replacement for the bottom of the entire ocean food chain, we need to decrease CO2. End of story.
I’ve said 100 times, I think we should be doing everything the climate scientists suggest. This includes reducing carbon emissions.
 

Tapxe

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Is there no end to the bad news?

https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/...use-beer-shortages-and-price-hikes-study-says

According to five climate models that used different projected temperature increases for the coming century, extreme weather events could reduce barley yields by 3 to 17 percent. Barley harvests are mostly sold as livestock fodder, so beer availability could be further hindered by the likely prioritization of grain yields to feed cattle and other farm animals, rather than for brewing beer.

The net result will be a decline in affordable access to beer, which is the most commonly imbibed alcoholic beverage in the world. Within a few decades, this luxury may be out of reach for hundreds of millions of people, including those in affluent nations where breweries are a major industry. Price spikes are estimated to range from $4 to over $20 for a standard six-pack in nations like the US, Ireland, Denmark, and Poland.
 

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Is there no end to the bad news?

According to five climate models that used different projected temperature increases for the coming century, extreme weather events could reduce barley yields by 3 to 17 percent. Barley harvests are mostly sold as livestock fodder, so beer availability could be further hindered by the likely prioritization of grain yields to feed cattle and other farm animals, rather than for brewing beer.

The net result will be a decline in affordable access to beer, which is the most commonly imbibed alcoholic beverage in the world. Within a few decades, this luxury may be out of reach for hundreds of millions of people, including those in affluent nations where breweries are a major industry. Price spikes are estimated to range from $4 to over $20 for a standard six-pack in nations like the US, Ireland, Denmark, and Poland.
https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/...use-beer-shortages-and-price-hikes-study-says
Thankfully no issue for me, since I only drink grain alcohol and rain water.
 

lapaz

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Im all about being responsible and taking care of the environment. But “climate change” is a natural occurring event. To suggest that man has anything to do with it is comical. Somw of you here are way smarter than I am, and I cant understand how you cant see that. I think you just dont want to.

Its a money making scheme guys... when I was a kid, they were spreading pieces of rubber on the ice because the fear was global cooling. They wanted the rubber to absorb heat to melt the ice. Then it was global warming because global cooling no longer fit the narrative. Now its man made climate change because global warming no longer fits the narrative.

I challenge you to look into how much money Al Gore has made off of this nonsense. How many times have we heard NOAA has altered their climate readings? Its really sad. Im glad Trump is putting an end to this foolishness.

Having said that, I’m all for finding renewable energy. Im all for the EPA restricting industry pollution. Like I said, we need to be responsible.

Flame away lol
Was the ozone layer depletion real? Was acid rain real? Do you believe a nuclear war would result in a nuclear winter? If so, then you believe man is capable of changing the environment. Laughable indeed.
 
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Man, sometime is really hard...



"They" didn't predict all these terrible hurricanes were going to hit New Orleans.
I didn’t say they did... “They” said it was just the beginning of all these terrible hurricanes and how it was Bush’s fault. We went 12 years without a major storm.

Its common sense guys... the Earth’s weather cycle is just that.... a cycle... Its going to cool down again and all the crazies are going to worry about global cooling just the did in the early 80’s... Its a money making scheme for the people at the top. How much money has Al Gore made off this crap?
 

N.O.Bronco

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I didn’t say they did... “They” said it was just the beginning of all these terrible hurricanes and how it was Bush’s fault. We went 12 years without a major storm.

Its common sense guys... the Earth’s weather cycle is just that.... a cycle... Its going to cool down again and all the crazies are going to worry about global cooling just the did in the early 80’s... Its a money making scheme for the people at the top. How much money has Al Gore made off this crap?
So maybe we need another lesson. Starting with a refresher course of 7th grade Earth science class.

Do you understand how the greenhouse effect works? What it is, what causes it etc? A simple yes or no and a brief statement explaining the general idea if your answer is yes is all that is needed.

Just trying to establish where we need to start from.
 
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So maybe we need another lesson. Starting with a refresher course of 7th grade Earth science class.

Do you understand how the greenhouse effect works? What it is, what causes it etc? A simple yes or no and a brief statement explaining the general idea if your answer is yes is all that is needed.

Just trying to establish where we need to start from.
You don’t need to start anywhere. You just keep on worrying about crap you cant control and things you think you know... The Earth’s climate is way too complex to point to just one thing. Mother nature has a way of correcting itself.
 

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