Coach O or not to O? (2 Viewers)

[MLU]

I think he's done a good job and revitalized a team that Les Miles seemed to have 'lost'. That said, those two losses to supposedly mediocre (at the time) teams that sealed Miles fate have turned out to be losses to teams that turned out to be pretty good after all.

Still, LSU backers and fans want a coach that can help the team challenge for the championship (aka, beat Bama) every year. Truth be told, I don't see that coach among those that are potentially available - ie, Coach O is likely to be that guy as much as anyone, however it's just as likely that 'beating Bama' is something that will have to wait until after Saban retires.

We will never beat Bama unless we get:

(1a). Better Lineman, Specifically, Offensive Lineman. Bama absolutely dominates us in
trenches every. single. year. Can't just have one or two good Olineman. You got to
have 5 dominant OLineman. Bama's defensive front is that good!!!

(1b). Better QB, and better QB coaching.


Keep Aranda at all cost!!!!

Ole Miss and TAMU seem to be able to beat Bama as much as they lose. The difference is the offense and the QB. Neither of them ever have the defensive success that LSU has had over the years. When the LSU defense does fail, it's because they've been on the field for 30 mins before the 4th quarter starts.

Bama is not unbeatable. LSU's issues are when they line up with Bama and try to attack their strengths. TAMU and Ole Miss attacks their weaknesses.

I don't get the "keep O and just hire a hot shot coordinator". If you are gonna do that, just find the hot shot coordinator and hire him. Or hire Aranda. Both guys have something that Orgeron doesn't have...experience calling plays and putting together a scheme. Why hire two guys to do one thing. That's what we had with Miles.

Well, then you hire a Coordinator with no HC experience. What's more important? I'd say that the HC experience more important for a HC than calling plays.

I think that the lack of coordinator experience is overblown. Was Miles ever a Coordinator? I can't recall off the top of my head. I'm not sure that Orgeron ever wanted to be a Coordinator. He certainly knows enough about the game. Of course being a Coordinator means he's unable to be a Recruiting Coordinator, which we all know is where his strengths lie.

Orgeron has been in this business long enough to make friends. He's charismatic enough to bring one of them to Baton Rouge to call plays. In the past he's said he wanted to run the USC offense. This past year he has said multiple times that he would like to spread the field more. I see nothing that points to him being close-minded like Miles in terms of playcalling or offensive scheme.

 

[Guido Merkins]

Ole Miss and TAMU seem to be able to beat Bama as much as they lose. The difference is the offense and the QB. Neither of them ever have the defensive success that LSU has had over the years. When the LSU defense does fail, it's because they've been on the field for 30 mins before the 4th quarter starts.

Bama is not unbeatable. LSU's issues are when they line up with Bama and try to attack their strengths. TAMU and Ole Miss attacks their weaknesses.

Well, then you hire a Coordinator with no HC experience. What's more important? I'd say that the HC experience more important for a HC than calling plays.

I think that the lack of coordinator experience is overblown. Was Miles ever a Coordinator? I can't recall off the top of my head. I'm not sure that Orgeron ever wanted to be a Coordinator. He certainly knows enough about the game. Of course being a Coordinator means he's unable to be a Recruiting Coordinator, which we all know is where his strengths lie.

Orgeron has been in this business long enough to make friends. He's charismatic enough to bring one of them to Baton Rouge to call plays. In the past he's said he wanted to run the USC offense. This past year he has said multiple times that he would like to spread the field more. I see nothing that points to him being close-minded like Miles in terms of playcalling or offensive scheme.

It looks like LOTS of Tiger fans feel the same way you do. I just can't see a top 5-10 job in the country firing Les Miles to hire Ed Orgeron. What have we gained?? Orgeron has no resume to suggest he should be the head coach at LSU. Could he come in and be great?? I guess it's possible, but I just don't see that guy as the Saban killer.

For all the pats on the back O is getting, we still have beaten only Arkansas. Any team that slows down our run game beats us.

 

[Bayouboy]

It looks like LOTS of Tiger fans feel the same way you do. I just can't see a top 5-10 job in the country firing Les Miles to hire Ed Orgeron. What have we gained?? Orgeron has no resume to suggest he should be the head coach at LSU. Could he come in and be great?? I guess it's possible, but I just don't see that guy as the Saban killer.

For all the pats on the back O is getting, we still have beaten only Arkansas. Any team that slows down our run game beats us.

I don't know if Saban killer really exist. They are as rare as unicorns.

With O, you pretty much have Les Miles with the chance to be much better on offense. That's not a bad deal.....Miles was very successful overall, but was stubborn as a mule. Orgeron is an excellent recruiter and motivator. It seems like he runs the program well. Obviously, the negatives are the losses on his interim record. One against the best team in football could have been forgiven. The other against a double digit dog.....one not so forgivable. But, in all honesty, it was more on poor execution than coaching.....but a few decisions he made on Saturday will end up costing him a shot at the head job.

In all honesty, I think O is off the table.....even if we don't land Fisher or Herman. That's a shame IMO, but it is what it is. I'm just hoping and praying Alleva comes through with one of the big two.

 

[B-Rich]

I don't know if Saban killer really exist. They are as rare as unicorns.

True.

Something else to consider-- do you you know how many ACTIVE coaches out there have won national championships? The lowest it's been in a while: FOUR.

1. Nick Saban, Alabama (2015, 2012, 2011, 2009)(2003- LSU)
2. Urban Meyer, Ohio State (2006, 2008- Florida)(2014- Ohio State)
3. Jimbo Fisher, Florida State (2013)
4. Bob Stoops, Oklahoma (2000)

Next year it will go back up by one to FIVE, with Miles being hired somewhere. But look at that list. Saban has not only won the most, he has NEVER LOST a championship game (Urban Meyer did beat Saban in a playoff game, not championship).

After Saban, I think the best that can possibly be done is Jimbo Fisher, because Urban Meyer is going nowhere, and Stoops, like Miles, has been done for years-- that one championship was in 2000, 16 years ago.

After that, it's all a crapshoot and Orgeron is as good as any-- Herman, Fedora, Fleck, etc.

 

[MLU]

It looks like LOTS of Tiger fans feel the same way you do. I just can't see a top 5-10 job in the country firing Les Miles to hire Ed Orgeron. What have we gained?? Orgeron has no resume to suggest he should be the head coach at LSU. Could he come in and be great?? I guess it's possible, but I just don't see that guy as the Saban killer.

For all the pats on the back O is getting, we still have beaten only Arkansas. Any team that slows down our run game beats us.

Most Tiger fans dont feel the way I do and want to hire Orgeron. I think that if the top few guys fall through, LSU could do a lot worse.

As for his record this season, I think your perspective is too simplistic. If that's a true picture, then who has Bama really beaten? What Orgeron has done and the results he has gotten is rare. Lots of schools have fired coaches and usually after that the season tanks. Orgeron made sure that didn't happen. He took someone else's flawed offense, had Ensminger call the plays in a different order and motivated the team to play well. They lost to Bama and UF, but those are not terrible teams. The teams they beat, they beat handily. I don't think anyone here would think that Miles would have done as good of a job or better.

Now, if the team played this way next year after having an offseason to install a new offense, then yeah I'd be pretty unhappy. Orgeron doesn't have it all figured out. He still has some learning to do, but he's embraced change and has invested himself into the job very quickly. I think LSU could do a lot worse.

 

[st dude]

Most Tiger fans dont feel the way I do and want to hire Orgeron. I think that if the top few guys fall through, LSU could do a lot worse.

As for his record this season, I think your perspective is too simplistic. If that's a true picture, then who has Bama really beaten? What Orgeron has done and the results he has gotten is rare. Lots of schools have fired coaches and usually after that the season tanks. Orgeron made sure that didn't happen. He took someone else's flawed offense, had Ensminger call the plays in a different order and motivated the team to play well. They lost to Bama and UF, but those are not terrible teams. The teams they beat, they beat handily. I don't think anyone here would think that Miles would have done as good of a job or better.

Now, if the team played this way next year after having an offseason to install a new offense, then yeah I'd be pretty unhappy. Orgeron doesn't have it all figured out. He still has some learning to do, but he's embraced change and has invested himself into the job very quickly. I think LSU could do a lot worse.

I don't think it's true most tiger fans want Orgeron. I think LSU gets Fisher and he will be a very popular hire, even among many who would be okay with Orgeron.

One is a proven head coach who has done well for a long time. The other failed in his gig as head coach. It's not even close.

This is not a knock on Orgeron. It's true some coaches who started poorly as head coaches became successful. But by that logic, any former head coach could with a losing record could do better.

Some polls are engineered to make it look like Orgeron has more support than he does. I think most LSU fans favor Fisher or Herman. I think it's Fisher.

 

[Bayouboy]

I don't think it's true most tiger fans want Orgeron. I think LSU gets Fisher and he will be a very popular hire, even among many who would be okay with Orgeron.

One is a proven head coach who has done well for a long time. The other failed in his gig as head coach. It's not even close.

This is not a knock on Orgeron. It's true some coaches who started poorly as head coaches became successful. But by that logic, any former head coach could with a losing record could do better.

Some polls are engineered to make it look like Orgeron has more support than he does. I think most LSU fans favor Fisher or Herman. I think it's Fisher.

Depends on how you conduct the poll. If you are talking x's and o's fans, I agree Orgeron would not be in the lead as "favorite" amoungst these fans....clearly Herman and Fisher would be at the top. But if you are talking LSU fans in general, the average Joe AND Jane...Coach O has a lot of support in Louisiana. I think it has everything to do with his personality & he's "one of us".

If LSU can't land Fisher or Herman, I would like Orgeron to get the job. The players respond to him and he is a top notch recruiter. I honestly think the offense can flourish under the right OC. The Florida loss hurt him badly. Poor execution, more than poor coaching cost LSU in that game. But, in the end, Orgeron made enough mistakes in the interim to be no better than a 5th or 6th choice for Alleva. That's a shame.

Hopefully, LSU can land Fisher or Herman. The alternatives are not attractive.

 

[st dude]

Depends on how you conduct the poll. If you are talking x's and o's fans, I agree Orgeron would not be in the lead as "favorite" amoungst these fans....clearly Herman and Fisher would be at the top. But if you are talking LSU fans in general, the average Joe AND Jane...Coach O has a lot of support in Louisiana. I think it has everything to do with his personality & he's "one of us".

If LSU can't land Fisher or Herman, I would like Orgeron to get the job. The players respond to him and he is a top notch recruiter. I honestly think the offense can flourish under the right OC. The Florida loss hurt him badly. Poor execution, more than poor coaching cost LSU in that game. But, in the end, Orgeron made enough mistakes in the interim to be no better than a 5th or 6th choice for Alleva. That's a shame.

Hopefully, LSU can land Fisher or Herman. The alternatives are not attractive.

I think you see a biased sample where you live. The further south one lives in Louisiana and the more they identify with Cajun culture, the more support you see for Orgeron.

I have a good friend who I go to the games with who fits that bill. He has been down on Miles for the last few years. Leaving the Alabama game he was in good spirits, talking about how well we played. I asked him if we have played the exact same game under Miles and been shut out like we were, would he be talking about how well we played. Honest guy that he is, he admitted he would have been really mad leaving the game.

I think his choiice of words for the Florida game would have mirrored yours, it was not a coaching issue, but an execution issue. For me, poor execution is a byproduct of poor coaching. Had Miles been coaching that game, it would have been 100% his fault we screwed up in red zone so often.

I personally like Orgeron and think it's possible he could be successful. I just can't see LSU taking that risk.

I think once you get out of South La, support for Orgeron is weak. Rightly or wrongly, his image is one of a rah rah big goofy coach from Water Boy. Orgeron might be extremely football smart, but when he speaks he doesn't project as being bright. His Cajun accent is endearing to many where I live, not so much among the broader fan base.

I don't care how he sounds, I look to his head coaching record. He flopped at Ole Miss where Houston Nutt and Hugh Freeze have had much more success.

Tiger Rant is by far the biggest LSU fan website, with fans from all over the state and the country. Any thread calling for Orgeron to be coach will be down-voted by a large margin.

While it could be somewhat an X's and O's crowd, as you say, wanting someone else, I think geography has more to do with it. You see more support for Orgeron because of where you live. It's not that everyone north of the Cajun Dixon line is against Orgeron, but his support overall outside of Cajun Country is weak.

This thread would suggest even Fedora has more support than Orgeron among LSU fans:

http://www.tigerdroppings.com/rant/coaching-changes/orgeron-fedora/67126417/

I should add that the opinions of those from South La who support O should not be automatically dismissed as biased. There certainly are facts to support the notion that he has evolved from his Ole Miss days and his overall record as an interim coach supports that.

 

[Mr. Blue Sky]

For me, poor execution is a byproduct of poor coaching.

This.


Thank you.

 

[Bayouboy]

I buy the geography arguement. I'd say most of the influence in the state is in the Southern region....so that matters to some degree. Moot point as I think Orgeron is not a viable candidate anymore.

As far as the "poor execution is a byproduct of poor coaching" in regards to O.....I don't think the sample size was large enough to make that conclusion. The Florida game is the only one where execution and mistakes were abundant. If you look at the Florida game as a whole, it took a ton of miscues to lose it. The Gators were gifted that one.

I'm curious to see the Tigers this evening. This will be another small sample of what Orgeron can do in the face of adversity. We can all agree that there is little to no outside motivation to win this game. It would be easy to mail this one in for LSU. If they play energized and motivated, Coach O is a miracle motivator. I honestly don't know what to expect. IMO, LSU loses this one. Hope I'm wrong.