Opinion Coach Payton is playing Chess: Shift to Position-less Offense (Game) (1 Viewer)

Snakehead

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I think we are not looking at the team needs correctly especially on offense. We all know that CSP is a pioneer and offensive genius. He uses WCO concepts and zone blocking, but if I recall correctly the zone blocking was a modification from the first offense he implemented here. He utilizes the X, Y, Z receivers and the offense has had varying degrees of success based on who filled each particular role and what their strengths. He has used small slots WRs and big slot WRs. He turned a basketball player into one of the best offensive weapons at TE/WR in the game. He utilizes his QB3 as on offensive weapon who can play every offensive skill position and plays them all well if not elite in some aspects. He uses the most or near the most different packages of players to cause confusion and create mismatches.

Most if not all of us are saying we need this or we need that in an effort to go BACK to what has worked in the past. The college game is different and that makes the NFL game different so the skillsets and strengths of available players is different and will continue to be different. IMO, CSP sees this and is going forward and looking ahead. How can he run his offense today and the future NFL? I think he is headed towards a position-less offense.

It dawned me that he might be headed this direction when reading the transcript from a Daniel Jeremiah interview that @Saint Spud posted on @NOFALCONS10 thread about FA and draft WRs. I didn't want to respond there because it could have sidetracked the thread and I think it could be a good discussion. When asked a question concerning the Jags about Isaiah Simmons who he compares to Derwin James as a guy who can play anywhere on defense, DJ responds with the following answer.


Are we going to start heading towards a positionless game, where you see guys on offense like Deebo Samuel who are playing in the slot but can almost function as running backs. You see guys like Derwin James, who could just darned near play every single position on the defense. But when you have offenses trying to manipulate personnel and get certain groups on the field like the Ravens have done a masterful job where they have the tight ends that they can put you in certain sets and then split the tight ends out, you better have more versatile players that can do multiple things.

This statement jumped out to me and got me thinking.

I have wondered why he brought in guys who have very similar skillsets like LJH, Hogan and Butler. All three of those guys did a lot with the football when in college. Hogan by far is the most athletic so I think he sticks and can be part of what I believe he is building towards.

At RB, AK is the guy who can play RB or WR, so he can fill multiple roles. MT can play every WR position. Taysom can play every offensive skill position. CSP likes FBs that can do more than just block, usually converted RBs. And although Arizona snatched Arnold, he's looking for that next all around weapon at TE. Cook is a good place holder.

I think he is building an offense that will not require so many personnel moves because the players on the field will be able to play nearly every position. There will be positions they are better at than others, but a guy like Taysom can be RB on one play, WR on another, QB next, TE after that, etc.

I think he has been tinkering with this and experimenting, but he wouldn't be able to run it completely until all of the pieces are in place.

I'll use Shenault as an example, especially if he runs a sub 4.4.

QB: Brees
X: MT
Offensive Weapon (OW): Shenault
OW: Hogan
OW: Kamara
TE: Cook

or

QB: Brees
X: MT
OW: Shenault (lines up at Y)
OW: Kamara (lines up at Z)
OW: Hogan (lines up in the backfield)
OW: Taysom (lines up at TE)

or

QB: Taysom
OW: Shenault (lines up at X)
OW: Kamara (lines up in the backfield)
OW: Antonio Gibson (lines up at Z)
OW: Hogan (lines up at TE)
OW: MT (lines up at Y)

The above example shows Antonio Gibson a RB/WR out of Memphis. I believe he is entering the draft as a RB, but he played a lot of WR at Memphis.

With the right pieces, the personnel package could remain the same on multiple plays, but due to their multiple skillsets they can perform different roles on any given play.
 
Great observation! Coach Payton has introduced the idea on the offensive line as well, valuing versatility when it comes to depth. As players evolve athletically, it is really interesting to see how a coach can get the most out of their skill set.
 
interesting post,,,,,,,,,,the concept would make Shenault and Gibson good draft choices.........if he picks one of them it will be a good indication of which direction coach is taking the offense
 
"Positional Versatility" is the new buzz word floating around this Off-season. Having players with diverse skill-sets who can fill multiple different roles interchangeably makes you more difficult to defend; and makes you less reliant on tendencies.

I will say there is some merit to still having players that just fulfill a true traditional position. Let's just say I still think the Saints can vastly benefit from having that True Slot - Y receiver, as a shifty, underneath guy with short area quickness who can eat up underneath coverage with the freedom of having a two way go. That would give them a reliable chains mover they haven't had since Willie Snead, to take some pressure off Michael Thomas on critical 3rd downs.


(also this is an Offensive thread but it got me thinking of the Clemson, Jack of All Trades Defender in the Draft this year Isaiah Simmons. Who has freakish speed, and athleticism and lined up just about every where on Clemson's Defense from playing as a True Deep Safety, to being a Mike Backer, rushing off the edge, and blitzing from the Nickel... will be interesting to see where he goes in the Draft and how he is utilized in the NFL)
 
Gibson is a WR.

God, I am salivating at the thought of him lined up opposite of MT and put to good use with SP’s expertise.

He's the exact type of player that would excel in a positionless offense.

He actually entered the draft as a RB.


At the Senior Bowl over the weekend, Gibson lead the South in rushing yards with 68, and he proved that he likely made the right decision to enter the draft as a running back. Much like Tony Pollard, Gibson is now labeled as a running back despite playing the majority of his time at Memphis at receiver.
 
While the rest of the league sees things as black and white, Sean has always seen shades of grey. He uses his TOs differently. He manages the back end of the roster differently. And so on. It’s who he is, and one of the reasons he’s so successful. He’s not bound by traditional definitions or practices.
 
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I think you hit the nail on the head. Even a dozen versatile players can help a team late in the season when injuries pile up. OT's that can play OG are valuable, and OG's that can play OT are priceless. A big S that can play WLB can really be stifling to offenses.

Versatile players can potentially shake up the roster. Even 1 guy like Taysom has probably affected our roster spots. 1 fewer ST specialist means you can carry 1 more OL, DT, LB, or WR.

Kamara should be used more in the passing game, but there goes your QB protection. I love that kid Etienne from Clemson. He reminds me so much of Kamara, and is even more versatile. But, I guess he's not coming out. Clyde Edwards-Hellaire has an Emmit / Zeke vibe, but is more dangerous in the passing game than either.
 
I like the thoughts. I also have Jalen Hurts on my radar at No. 3 based on all the same reasoning.
 
What a great thread! I think you guys are totally on point in regards to Payton and his evolution....great discussion!
 
I like the idea and concept. My only concern would be come contract time and having a Jimmy Graham issue. Yeah I’m labeled as this but I play this position more so I want to be paid accordingly.
 

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