Coach Pete: Education on Pro Player Conditioning (1 Viewer)

Swimmer

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I showed coach Pete the thread with the title, "Coach Pete, How Do Like Them Apples" As insulting as the intent of that post was, he just laughed and laughed. He said,

"Let me use this as an opportunity to share a little of what I have learned about pro-level conditioning. Only because of my experience, there are a few things I have some knowledge of that may be enjoyed by others."
"I've worked with Marcus Davenport. I've watched him, timed him and simply had the honor of observings a level of talent I have only seen in Michael Strahan and Von Miller. These elite kids are pampered from high school and usually paid well in College, They are like Gods on their campus. They are spoiled, praised, flocked after by hot girls and adored by the agents who pour money and privileges upon them.

As a coach, getting the top performance out of young athletes is a challenge. When I coached 15-18 year old young males with more testosterone than brain cells, they literally work till the wee hours of the night to come up with something that will embarrass me and my coaches. It's really fun and hysterical. So when some young punks try to insult me over Davenport and make sure the perceived insult is not to my face, I know that type teenage behavior. LMAO - in my culture, when younger, we would cut someone for that type insult. But what I've learned over the years is that it's just young males with more testosterone than brain cells - lol. If they are Who Dats fans, regardless of the Intelligent arse comments, they are friends of mine, so let me explain what really happens in training and developing super athletes, in the real world, not the Internet world of make believe Madden."
"Some of these kids are freak athletes. They have been sucked up to since high school. However, to have a winning team, a coach has to get these spoiled kids to perform near their maximum and play like they are part of a team. Stroking these elite kids egos is a disaster. You have to make them realize they are just a key part of something bigger than themselves. You gotta get them to buy into team and you gotta get them to understand they have a God-given talent that takes a lot of effort to actualize. Coaching and training are identical. You try to get the best out of each student and you try to get them to internalize the effort it's required to be a star and eventually a star in the NFL or whatever their age pursuits can support.

From my experience, unwarranted praise to elite spoiled athletes actually hinders their optimal development. The kids have to earn the praise of the coaches and they only get that through mature team like behavior and effort. So when a true natural super-elite athlete like Davenport comes along, if You blow up and praise them to try and get them to like you, they under-perform and don't become contributing team players. I know Marcus. He is a freak athlete and he is an extremely smart young man with a thirst for learning to get better. He has it all. He has a unique ability to set NFL records. But what they do has to be totally committed. As a coach and a trainer, you can never give praise to an elite player who is not performing to the best of their ability. When they don't perform their offseason assignment to them by their coaches, that is simply immature and not a team like responsible. But now they are being paid millions and have beautiful babes hanging on their arms.

So we as coaches and trainers have to call on these kids to rise above normal testosterone cycles and understand the huge investment teams are making on them. When Marcus, and not because he is a bad young man, Coach Pete loves the kid and he has elite potential, And he is not going to praise Marcus when he doesn't dedicate himself fully in the offseason becaseu that lack of total commitment hurts the team.

If Marcus had fully devoted himself to off-season training, the coaches would be teaching him advanced DE moves. But because he didn't, the coaches had to work on his conditioning instead of next-generation DE moves. What we are seeing this last week is basically pure athletic talent of Marcus. Can you imagine if he learned spin moves and other moves in addition to his speed bull rush moves. Marcus has the ability to be one of the greatest DEs in NFL history. But he must make a total commitment if he wants to go down alongside Michael Strhana and Von MIller."

To the Irish kid and his invisible supporters, I can only say that your lives can be enormously richer if you can get off the weak ego trip and learn a little about true self development. It's not easy. It takes really honest introspection. But the life long results are extraordinary!
 
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RevDeuceWindham

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I think that Pete is arguing that an all world talent should be playing like an all world talent. Right now he is playing “solid” or “doing what’s he’s being asked to do”. Pete attributes it to conditioning, which is a very plausible explanation. I don’t think that Pete is saying that Davenport sucks. He’s saying that this far he has not put in the world necessary to tap his elite ability. I think that is a very fair statement. Hopefully Davenports offseason regimen improves and he comes into 2021 looking like an elite defensive player.
I guess its all about expectations then? I don't know any other scout or coach in the NFL who expected Davenport to be rocking the world by this point. The average sack output for 1st round DEs is 3-4 sacks in their rookie season, depending on how many years back you go with your sample size. Def trickles down after you get out of the top 10
 

sammymvpknight

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You think someone going back and forth telling this person "he said this" then telling the other "he said this" is great? I don't.
Pete said that Davenport has elite ability but didn’t put in the work asked of him during the offseason and it’s the reason why he isn’t looking like a pro bowl player right now. He said that he did look better week two, perhaps because his conditioning is improving. I think that all of that is very reasonable explanations. I just don’t think you like what he has to say...which is fine.
 
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RevDeuceWindham

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Do you think that offseason conditioning is important?
I do, and no one I talk to in/around the facility has ever mentioned Davenport struggling in that area.

Edit: he did have surgery in the offseason, and had to work a bit from that in terms of "extra conditioning". But, thats every player. I don't know of any work ethic complaints.
 

RevDeuceWindham

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Has anyone ever given you insight on a poorly conditioned player before?
Yes. That stuff gets talked about when it happens, as coaches aren't happy (as you can imagine). That was one of the big things about Dez Bryant's workouts that was noted, was that he wasn't in great shape yet.
 

sammymvpknight

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Yes. That stuff gets talked about when it happens, as coaches aren't happy (as you can imagine). That was one of the big things about Dez Bryant's workouts that was noted, was that he wasn't in great shape yet.
From Dez Bryant it was an expectation that he would be out if shape and it’d be something even Dez would admit because of his long absence from the game. So saying “we’re working on conditioning would be fine.” It would not be the expectation that a 2nd year player you just spent two 1st round picks on would arrive to camp out of shape without a good reason. I also would find it surprising if Saints coaching or medical staff would share that with you...with all due respect. That’s typically not the way they handle business. They did it with Breaux and it predictably blew up in their face. Medical and training staff intentionally avoid the media.
 

Doug B

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Any chance whatsoever that coaches didn't want Davenport showing newly-learned moves during the preseason? Recall how film study of JJ Watt's tendencies helped Ryan Ramczyk neutralize Watt in Week 1. Maybe coaches wanted to keep the stuff Davenport was working on under wraps during preseason?

Not that Davenport was asked to play "gently" or asked to play half-speed. Perhaps he was told in preseason to just play "basic" ... just bull your guy, try to stand him up and beat him physically if you can -- and if not, that's fine too.
 

RevDeuceWindham

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From Dez Bryant it was an expectation that he would be out if shape and it’d be something even Dez would admit because of his long absence from the game. So saying “we’re working on conditioning would be fine.” It would not be the expectation that a 2nd year player you just spent two 1st round picks on would arrive to camp out of shape without a good reason. I also would find it surprising if Saints coaching or medical staff would share that with you...with all due respect. That’s typically not the way they handle business. They did it with Breaux and it predictably blew up in their face. Medical and training staff intentionally avoid the media.
Okie doke, and thats fine, but this stuff gets out. That information isn't limited to the medical/coaching staff. We're also not talking about serious injury information, which is harder to get, but lets use that as an example. Alex Anzalone's injury was "known" about by most when it happened. The problem as a reporter is verifying it (which you need the player/coach to do) so that you can report on it. That's just not gonna happen, especially in Camp/Preseason. Yet its still known.
 

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Pete said that Davenport has elite ability but didn’t put in the work asked of him during the offseason and it’s the reason why he isn’t looking like a pro bowl player right now. He said that he did look better week two, perhaps because his conditioning is improving. I think that all of that is very reasonable explanations. I just don’t think you like what he has to say...which is fine.
You are not grasping what I am saying. I am talking about the purpose of this thread. I am referring to Reggie09MVP posting something here, Swimmer going to coach Pete with "he said this about you", then Swimmer coming back here with "well coach Pete said this about you". Gossipy drama.
 

sammymvpknight

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You are not grasping what I am saying. I am talking about the purpose of this thread. I am referring to Reggie09MVP posting something here, Swimmer going to coach Pete with "he said this about you", then Swimmer coming back here with "well coach Pete said this about you". Gossipy drama.
Gotcha. Missed that. You’re right
 

Big_L

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Coach Pete with "smack my bia up" award. I'm still on the Davenport train. Dude is gonna beast it up. This season. Bet on it per Non - Coach L.
 

saint_drago

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From Dez Bryant it was an expectation that he would be out if shape and it’d be something even Dez would admit because of his long absence from the game. So saying “we’re working on conditioning would be fine.” It would not be the expectation that a 2nd year player you just spent two 1st round picks on would arrive to camp out of shape without a good reason. I also would find it surprising if Saints coaching or medical staff would share that with you...with all due respect. That’s typically not the way they handle business. They did it with Breaux and it predictably blew up in their face. Medical and training staff intentionally avoid the media.
Not for nothing but you don't have to be an NFL insider to hear this kind of information. We're not talking about some mysterious injury. We're talking about whether or not a dude came into camp in shape. That seems like something that would be apparent to the people who cover the Saints.

Or even for the average fan. It's not that difficult to see when a guy isn't in shape.

And btw, not all info comes from the coaching or medical staff. There's a lot of people in the organization and people talk. They can't help it.
 

sammymvpknight

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Not for nothing but you don't have to be an NFL insider to hear this kind of information. We're not talking about some mysterious injury. We're talking about whether or not a dude came into camp in shape. That seems like something that would be apparent to the people who cover the Saints.

Or even for the average fan. It's not that difficult to see when a guy isn't in shape.

And btw, not all info comes from the coaching or medical staff. There's a lot of people in the organization and people talk. They can't help it.
It’s easy to see when a guy is gassed and puking on the sidelines. It’s less easy to see that a player doesn’t play with consistency and plays higher than they should. That’s subtle. And realize that trainers have very high standards for their athletes. Just because the standard hasn’t been met doesn’t mean that the player is a complete slug. It just means that they aren’t completely living up to their potential.
 
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Swimmer

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His comment was aimed at another poster, at least I thought it was. I don't think anyone ever deserves to be called stupid or ignorant and it's surprising to me that you would say anyone deserved to be called stupid and ignorant.

I'm not trying to own anyone.
I have to be real careful with my words. As tight as the rules try to protect and promote respectful communication on SSR, there are naturally loopholes. In response to a post, Reggie09MVP starts another post that is flat out rude, insulting and antagonistic by title, "Coach Pete, How Do You Like Them Apples!"

Not sure what planet everyone comes from, but on my planet, that is flat out insulting, rude and disrespectful. You and a few others jump in, support the thread and then try to point out our behavior in response to the inflammatory post as if we are ones with rude behavior. It's like Coach Pete said, "This is like in the NFL when an O-lineman at the bottom of a pile kicks a defensive player in his personals. When the attacked player gets up and he punches back, and lol, the one who was rudely attacked gets the penalty for responding.

I personally think its way cowardly and disrespectful to start insulting people in a public forum, then act like you are being hurt when the person you insulted 1st then responds. This type behavior is what I consider very cowardly in social media and one of the reasons why Coach Pete rarely does anything on social media.
 
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Swimmer

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I don't understand why so many people just take what Coach Pete says as gospel regarding Davenport's work ethic... wasn't it one of his strength coming out of the draft ? Just google "Marcus Davenport work ethic" and you'll see tons of people praising him for it.
Many didn't and I think they are wise to doubt him and for that matter, just about any analyst or former coach. Coach Pete could care less if everyone agrees with him. Pete has been wrong a number of times. Respectful disagreement backed by real info is awesome. That's not the problem here. Respect for posters right to be correct, incorrect or partial is key to SR functioning successfully.

And there is no real disagreement between Coach Pete and Rev Deuce. Rev is astutely pointing out the things Marcus is doing really well this year. Coach Pete likes Rev's articles and insights. Coach Pete's point is that he believes this was as good a Saints team assembled as has ever taken the field with a real chance at the SB (pre Brees injury). Coach Pete is looking at Davenport from a coaches view. To win the championship, the top players have to train and perform at their best. We as fan may "wow" at some of the moves these freak athletes make whereas a coach goes, "That was a great move, but instead of only once a game, I want that player making that move 5 times every game." Teams that have coaches who demand top performance make Championships and SBs. The ones that don't end up like the Dolphins.
 

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