Cornerback (1 Viewer)

deuce4pres

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I see all these mocks saying we get Samuel in FA, the DT, LB in the first few rounds. I hope everyone fully understands that we have David, Craft, and Young for our CB depth as of now. Write McKenzie off till late October fellas. Getting one CB in FA is not going to be enough. We will need at least three starting CB's in either FA or the draft. AS OF RIGHT NOW, WE DON'T HAVE A SINGLE STARTING CALIBER CB FOR THE OPENING DAY ROSTER!!!!!!!! David is horrible. Craft is not bad, but not a starter. Young is unproven. Please! I hope the front office does the right thing for their fans and gets CB's first. Everything else should be second. Just my opinion though. Remember. We have NO starting CB's on this team. NONE. ZILCH. NADA. ZERO!!:hihi:
 

sycamoresaint

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good point! i agree with you but not at the prices that asante samuels will want. 1st rounder and another 2nd tier fa. then let em all fight it out and have jason david bringing them water
 

brianw37

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good point! i agree with you but not at the prices that asante samuels will want. 1st rounder and another 2nd tier fa. then let em all fight it out and have jason david bringing them water


wow.......david would be the right fit for us at waterboi:hihi:
 

waazup

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I say we draft a couple of these guys if not all of them :cool::

Mike Jenkins (best corner in the draft)
Patrick Lee (good mid round value)
Chevis Jackson (good mid round value)
 

meily

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I think were better off addressing all our needs threw the draft and go hard at Corey Williams in free agency, I think we should get three potential starters in the first 3 rounds (LB, CB and DT)
 
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deuce4pres

deuce4pres

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I think were better off addressing all our needs threw the draft and go hard at Corey Williams in free agency, I think we should get three potential starters in the first 3 rounds (LB, CB and DT)


Good point, BUT, We have serviceable talent at LB and DT. We have jack crap at CB. NOTHING. We may need 1 DT and LBer, but before we get either, or top need is @ least two starting caliber CB's. To better explain, here's what our order of getting new faces for the Saints in 08 should be in either FA or draft:

1. CB
2. CB
3. DT
4. LB
5. OG
6. TE
7. WR
some where in the bottom, a safety.

If we get one starting caliber CB in FA, then trade down or draft a CB in the first! So on and so forth!
 

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Usama Young is unproven but has talent. I think you are looking at a possible opening day starter in Young. He'll have a year under his belt and likely will be much more comfortable in understanding his role.

Also, I do not know that Samuel or any other cornerback would have to cost us what Clements costs. First, we must recognize that a lot of the money that Clements got is soft money that he'll never see. The bulk of his money is in the guaranteed money he is getting. Secondly, if the Saints were to hand Samuel a deal like 6 years $60 million, I would be okay with that sort of deal. I think people see $80 and just go crazy not recognizing that Drew's deal would be the exact same if you extend it two years. And Charles Grant's deal would be close to the same as Clements. I could see Samuel getting a 6 year deal that, on the surface, averages $10 million even though he won't see an actual $10 million a year. I think many of us do not truly understand the salary cap and, thus, end up misunderstanding how much a guy would count against our cap.

The Saints could resign some of our key free agents and guys like Evans, Colston, and Smith and still have the money in place to sign two impact free agents like Samuel and Briggs.

Briggs is likely to get a deal averaging $7.5 million. If you do that out over 7 years, that's $52.5 million. If you give him $21 million guaranteed, that's a prorated cap figure of $3 million a year + his base salary, which is likely to be low for the first 2 or 3 seasons. If Briggs is only counting $4 to 5 million a year against the cap for three or four seasons, that would be a great deal for this team. And I would gather that a six year deal for Samuel would offer the same.

My hope for the Saints would be to either sign Samuel or Trufant or, my favorite of the three, Asomugha (though of the three he's most likely to be franchised) at CB. I would sign Briggs if I could convince him to come in. And I would take a long look at Jovan Haye and Reggie Torbor. Of the two, I would take Haye. I would go in the draft and move up to take either Dorsey or Ellis if necessary. If we got Haye, my preference would be far Ellis because I think he can play the two-gap. A starting defensive line of Grant, Ellis, Haye and Smith would wreak havoc especially with Orgeron coaching and providing those guys with greater discipline. I think that would improve this defense a lot and I would not mind an opening day starting duo of a guy like Usama Young and whoever we sign in the free agency period at CB.
 

meily

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Beside the obvious free agent targets there really are not a lot of significant help out there, and Payton did say he wanted to get younger and more athletic on D, that kinda points me to building it up through the draft, I mean he comes from a Bill Parcells led team and philosophy and Bill is a builder and takes advantage of the draft and avoids problems like these ( having to spend big money to get a free agent) so I do believe that we will get help through the free agent wire, but we will be counting on these draft picks to "contribute" meaning whoever we sign in free agency if they don't work out, these rookies will get there shot, sooner rather than later....later being, after we are out of the play off picture.
 

Darkhorse985

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Usama Young is unproven but has talent. I think you are looking at a possible opening day starter in Young. He'll have a year under his belt and likely will be much more comfortable in understanding his role.

Also, I do not know that Samuel or any other cornerback would have to cost us what Clements costs. First, we must recognize that a lot of the money that Clements got is soft money that he'll never see. The bulk of his money is in the guaranteed money he is getting. Secondly, if the Saints were to hand Samuel a deal like 6 years $60 million, I would be okay with that sort of deal. I think people see $80 and just go crazy not recognizing that Drew's deal would be the exact same if you extend it two years. And Charles Grant's deal would be close to the same as Clements. I could see Samuel getting a 6 year deal that, on the surface, averages $10 million even though he won't see an actual $10 million a year. I think many of us do not truly understand the salary cap and, thus, end up misunderstanding how much a guy would count against our cap.

The Saints could resign some of our key free agents and guys like Evans, Colston, and Smith and still have the money in place to sign two impact free agents like Samuel and Briggs.

Briggs is likely to get a deal averaging $7.5 million. If you do that out over 7 years, that's $52.5 million. If you give him $21 million guaranteed, that's a prorated cap figure of $3 million a year + his base salary, which is likely to be low for the first 2 or 3 seasons. If Briggs is only counting $4 to 5 million a year against the cap for three or four seasons, that would be a great deal for this team. And I would gather that a six year deal for Samuel would offer the same.

My hope for the Saints would be to either sign Samuel or Trufant or, my favorite of the three, Asomugha (though of the three he's most likely to be franchised) at CB. I would sign Briggs if I could convince him to come in. And I would take a long look at Jovan Haye and Reggie Torbor. Of the two, I would take Haye. I would go in the draft and move up to take either Dorsey or Ellis if necessary. If we got Haye, my preference would be far Ellis because I think he can play the two-gap. A starting defensive line of Grant, Ellis, Haye and Smith would wreak havoc especially with Orgeron coaching and providing those guys with greater discipline. I think that would improve this defense a lot and I would not mind an opening day starting duo of a guy like Usama Young and whoever we sign in the free agency period at CB.

We think a lot alike, I have noticed that I agree with you on many of your posts. Although, I believe if we sign one of the top tier corners, like we should, we would not be able to feasibly sign Briggs. If we do chose Briggs over one of the top 3 corners, then I hope we pursue D. Florence. Haye is a restricted free agent that would cost us a draft pick, but he is another option.
 

cruize

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FA's DT Starks - WR Johnson - CB Florence
1. CB Jenkins 2. MLB Lofton 3. WR Bowman 4. DT Okam 5. OLB Gatewood 6. DT Shirley 7. TE Sperry.
 

Slim K

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FA's DT Starks - WR Johnson - CB Florence
1. CB Jenkins 2. MLB Lofton 3. WR Bowman 4. DT Okam 5. OLB Gatewood 6. DT Shirley 7. TE Sperry.

Seriously, that wouldn't even make us a winning team. Starks has done nothing, even with Haynesworth next to him. Out of every addition you have to our team, Lofton would be the only impact player. I do like Jenkins for the future, though.

And make your own mock thread :9: Stop posting in others.
 
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Here is what we do:

1. Sign UFA Drayton Florence and UFA Michael Lehan
2. Sign UFA Antwan Odom
3. Draft BEST TALENT AVAILABLE...it always goes wrong if you draft for need
4. Wait for Kris Jenkins to be released.
5. Sign Kris Jenkins
6. Mini camps/training camp: transition Grant from DE to DT

Here is the reasoning:

I don't know if people realise quite how good Florence and Odom are but both are seriously, seriously good players. Lehan has starting experience and is serviceable and still likely an upgrade on our current projected starters for 08 (given MM isn't ready). Florence has started but then plays in the nickel when the down and distance situation changes the defensive package. Odom is a really, really solid player and has just gone under the radar with Vanden Bosch and Haynesworth, both of whom are great. But he gets to the QB and plays the run well. Lehan will provide depth.

Kris Jenkins is as always unhappy with his situation in Carolina. I think this is the year he goes. They will look for a trade, but in this scenario, no one (as last season) gives them the 1st they are (ambitiously) looking for. So he is cut. We sign him to a two or three year, performance driven (with the injury concerns) contract.

At this point you are probably thinking...why are we signing Odom, we are probably stronger at DE than any other defensive position.

Well, this is a copy cat league. We wait until mini-camps and training camps and then begin the development of our own Justin Tuck. Namely Charles Grant at DT. It's a gamble, but it could work. Even without Jenkins, I think this is something to think about given his combination of strength, speed and size.

This also leaves us able to sit where we are and draft the best talent available. It means we can go first round on a corner but not require them to start for a couple of years. We can go with the best talent available where we pick (could be Keith Rivers, perhaps) to complete it.

I don't think people pay enough attention to Philly's perspective of strengthening (on both sides of the ball) from the line outwards. A vastly improved D line would dramtically improve the whole D obviously, and I believe with perhaps a first, second or third round pick used at any of the three LB spots, we can improve dramtically.

Just my thoughts people...
 

mister pc

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im counting on Usama Young to be starting #2 cornerback next year. He has the potential just needs some more game experience. We picked him too early in the draft for him not to be starting. Young can do for the Saints what Fred Bennett did for the Texans. Its very unrealistic to expect the Saints to sign 3 new starting cornerbacks in one offseason.
 

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Jason David and Usama or Craft will be our starting CBs... prepare yourselves now... they still have faith in David... and they also want to prove they didn't make a mistake by bringing him here.

In all honesty... I'd like to see what the kid can do if we can get some heat on the QB...
 

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I just do not believe we will be anywhere close to getting Asante Samuel or Marcus Trufant. I think Asomugha was tagged or will be, so he's out. They'll all be too expensive, if they would even be interested in the first place.
I feel the same way about Briggs @ LB. Torbor is a possibility, but unlikely.
Name the last big name FA we signed, aside from Brees, that has came in and made a big impact. We just don't do it. We take those less expensive chances on 2nd to 3rd tier FAs. For all who think we are gonna make some major headway in FA plugging our holes, well they are just gonna be disappointed. I'm trying to be negative either. I know I'll be jumped on by some folks on here who are the "know all" of the Saints. I'm just saying look back through the history of the Franchise. What have we traditionally done? Now, don't get me wrong I would love to be wrong this year. Every year we all sit and type away on our keyboards about the big dream FAs or draft picks we want. What usually happens? Not much!
 

meily

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im counting on Usama Young to be starting #2 cornerback next year. He has the potential just needs some more game experience. We picked him too early in the draft for him not to be starting. Young can do for the Saints what Fred Bennett did for the Texans. Its very unrealistic to expect the Saints to sign 3 new starting cornerbacks in one offseason.


Very true, at some point coaching is gonna have to be done, Usama Young is gonna be a good corner for us, and hopefully will be a key cog in this secondary for awhile, its easy to forget that since we are going into a new offseason and people want new blood, but Usama is new blood, Jason David had a bad year defending the deep ball and keeping his eyes outa the backfield, but he has a knack for making a play and he did that a few times last year, instead of wrting him off because of those mental lapses, let hope for improved play from the guy cause he did improve last year, then there is Jason Craft, he wasnt spectacular but he was solid and he can still help this secondary, to me we need to bring in 2 more Corners to solidify the corner back spot.


#1 Corner: McKenzie
#2 Corner: Young
Nickle Back : David
Dime Back: Craft


Now in the draft we will draft a corner that can potentially be teamed with Young until McKenzie is fully healthy or to take McKenzie spot if he has to be put on PUP or we can depend on Craft and the improvement of Jason David to start for us if the rookies or FA pick up is not ready (doesnt have the defense down yet) there is still some talent and potential in our secondary and as mad as we all our for some of the production from these players, we cant replace them all and they will still play a role for this team next year, there performance last year is not indicative of the contribution your gonna get from them the rest of there careers in N.O. so lets stop holding grudges and really think about the potential roster change.
 

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