Cornerbacks are overrated and its true!!! (1 Viewer)

[Dogpoundrus]

http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?name=nfl_afc This is why we need to get a good DT in FA or Draft

 

[iambruce]

i've always agreed with that sentiment!

 

[jaxmc1023]

The D-Line can't get much pressure when the quarterback takes a 3-step drop, and without hesitating throws a bomb over Jason David's shoulder... The secondary has to at least make the QB take some time to find someone open.

Everything on the defense has to work. Fixing oen thing will not fix all the others. We need playmakers at almost every position.

 

[Tapxe]

I'd like to see the whole article, but don't have insider. I'm curious if he even factors in the rule changes which now emphasize allowing the receiver to run free after the initial 5 yards. This makes it even more important to get quick pressure.

 

[Tapxe]

The D-Line can't get much pressure when the quarterback takes a 3-step drop, and without hesitating throws a bomb over Jason David's shoulder... The secondary has to at least make the QB take some time to find someone open.

Everything on the defense has to work. Fixing oen thing will not fix all the others. We need playmakers at almost every position.

Yeah, but Jason David was a decent corner on a team that has good pressure from the DL and top flight safety play. So did David just suddenly forget how to play, have trouble adjusting to a new scheme, or get left out to dry by poor safety and DL play?

 

[Super Dad]

This is all very true and we definately need a young DT we could also use a J Peterson type OLB to send on the blitz from tima to time

 

[SuperQuincy]

I would take the overated position or player anyday of the week, if the alternative is "God Awful rated"


But I do agree, after all the rule changes to benefit offensive players (especially QB's and WR's) Shutdown corners just are not out there anymore. So many teams are pass happy, and DB's basicly can't do anything on thier own anymore (get physical with the receiver) They have to basicly run with a players for 5 seconds and hope the pressure gets put on.


However, like the cornerback knock, a similar knock gets made about drafting DT's. Many say that 90 percent of the DT's entering the draft every year do NOT know how to rush/put pressure on the QB. Most of these guys have been/are the strongest players on the field, and have been at every level of the game the played. Many just rely on thier strength and bull rush the person infront of them becuase its all they ever had to do. That changes in the NFL and its usually why D-Linemen usually take a a few years to develope. Its takes a season to learn how to use leverage, come off blocks, and rush the passer.

SO, I can see your point about CBs, but there are points that also hold water reguarding DT's. Linebackers are usually the only rookies who have alot of success on that side of the ball, and its mainly because thier jobs don;t really change all that much, its a fast game so they need to adjust. But if they had the instincts to find the ball in college, it dosen;t go away in the pros. See the ball, Tackle the ball!

I agree with yoou about the DT tho, just playing devils advocate. But I would rather the FA DT. I think we will have a better Idea of what we are getting, and I think it would really allow us to go any direction with the pick in the draft. I wouldn't even be opposed to say signing Shaun Rogers (did he resign with detroit, can't recall. If not he is due to be a FA) or Haynesworth. Than we draft Sederick Ellis if he falls to us. Probably unlikely, but I am not impressed with any of our D-Line (that includes Grant and Smith) and think that could use a good blowing up.

 

[fr3sh]

I would take the overated position or player anyday of the week, if the alternative is "God Awful rated"


But I do agree, after all the rule changes to benefit offensive players (especially QB's and WR's) Shutdown corners just are not out there anymore. So many teams are pass happy, and DB's basicly can't do anything on thier own anymore (get physical with the receiver) They have to basicly run with a players for 5 seconds and hope the pressure gets put on.


However, like the cornerback knock, a similar knock gets made about drafting DT's. Many say that 90 percent of the DT's entering the draft every year do NOT know how to rush/put pressure on the QB. Most of these guys have been/are the strongest players on the field, and have been at every level of the game the played. Many just rely on thier strength and bull rush the person infront of them becuase its all they ever had to do. That changes in the NFL and its usually why D-Linemen usually take a a few years to develope. Its takes a season to learn how to use leverage, come off blocks, and rush the passer.

SO, I can see your point about CBs, but there are points that also hold water reguarding DT's. Linebackers are usually the only rookies who have alot of success on that side of the ball, and its mainly because thier jobs don;t really change all that much, its a fast game so they need to adjust. But if they had the instincts to find the ball in college, it dosen;t go away in the pros. See the ball, Tackle the ball!

I agree with yoou about the DT tho, just playing devils advocate. But I would rather the FA DT. I think we will have a better Idea of what we are getting, and I think it would really allow us to go any direction with the pick in the draft. I wouldn't even be opposed to say signing Shaun Rogers (did he resign with detroit, can't recall. If not he is due to be a FA) or Haynesworth. Than we draft Sederick Ellis if he falls to us. Probably unlikely, but I am not impressed with any of our D-Line (that includes Grant and Smith) and think that could use a good blowing up.

Maybe if we go out and get some good corners and safeties, our d-line won't have to be spectacular for us to have a chance at stopping opposing offenses. I think our d-line lacked trust in our secondary this past year, and who would trust them? When was the last time the Saints got a "coverage sack?"

 

[saintfan-n-alex]

chicken or the egg thinking - you cant rely on one at the expense of the other - you have to be competent in both areas as the other team can game plan around anything.

 

[SuperQuincy]

Maybe if we go out and get some good corners and safeties, our d-line won't have to be spectacular for us to have a chance at stopping opposing offenses. I think our d-line lacked trust in our secondary this past year, and who would trust them? When was the last time the Saints got a "coverage sack?"

From what I saw they just weren't doing thier jobs, actually not true. I saw Hollis Thomas doing his job, he is it tho. Only problem is he is winded after a play or 2 and they spell him because he is sucking wind.

Good corners and safties should be the least of thier concerns, its starts up front. We weren't getting blown off the line because of any player in the secondary. Its all about determination and non-stop motors on the line. We didn't have it. Yet if we re-sign Will Smith I think we will have the highest paid DE tandom in the league with the lowest combined sack total, i'm not fine with that. If I were grading the D-line on thier performance, well they failed.


EDIT: Also using simillar logic. I say our DBs were good last year, but they just stopped trying becuase the D line wasn't doing thier job. They just didn't have any trust. I mean when was the last time the put consistent pressure on a QB or even got a sack. (had I gone and said this tho, I would be BSing myself) But the logic is the same, its not like this Line came out dominating the first few games than trailed off because the secondary.

Also we have how much money invested in the back 4, and how much in the front 4. I think Charles Grant is making more than the entire secondary combined. We have the talent in one of these areas and they just underperform, in the other area we have 2nd and 3 rounders that look, well like 2nd and 3rd rounders. Thus the term blow it up I used for the D line implying we have something there, but its just not working. The secondary well its impossible to blow up something that was never there. Although we could make rubble bounce.

Mute point none the less, both areas were terrible and we both hope they improve, that i'm sure of.

 

[varanook]

Good corners and safties should be the least of thier concerns, its starts up front. We weren't getting blown off the line because of any player in the secondary. Its all about determination and non-stop motors on the line. We didn't have it. Yet if we re-sign Will Smith I think we will have the highest paid DE tandom in the league with the lowest combined sack total, i'm not fine with that. If I were grading the D-line on thier performance, well they failed.

well said.

 

[BoNcHiE]

The D-Line can't get much pressure when the quarterback takes a 3-step drop, and without hesitating throws a bomb over Jason David's shoulder... The secondary has to at least make the QB take some time to find someone open.

Everything on the defense has to work. Fixing oen thing will not fix all the others. We need playmakers at almost every position.

You can't throw a bomb with a 3 step drop. Thats not enough time for a WR to even get past the sticks on a 1st and 10.

Pressure will take the deep ball away and thats what we struggle with.

 

[FatiusJeebs]

You can't throw a bomb with a 3 step drop. Thats not enough time for a WR to even get past the sticks on a 1st and 10.

Pressure will take the deep ball away and thats what we struggle with.

I agree with this. A good D-Line can make ANY secondary look like Hall Of Famers with good pressure.

 

[Hit it]

Exactly. Look at Denver, best CB duo in the game but an awful line. Their defence sucked. Giants on the other hand has a group of noname CBs but a brilliant line. Their defence is quite good.


So D-line > secondary. Our secondary is bad (David "biting" on a pump that isn't even there is unacceptable), but the passrush was non-existing. With a pass rush, i think our corners will be adequate.

 

[Nevimeister]

I agree with this. A good D-Line can make ANY secondary look like Hall Of Famers with good pressure.

Courtland Finnegan looked like a shutdown corner until Haynesworth was injured and the D-line stopped getting pressure. When Rivers sat back in the 2nd half of the playoff game he shredded the Titans pass defense. Both his receivers went over 110 yards and he didn't have Gates playing to take away coverage

 

[DavidM]

You can't throw a bomb with a 3 step drop. Thats not enough time for a WR to even get past the sticks on a 1st and 10.

Pressure will take the deep ball away and thats what we struggle with.

Agreed. We saw it with our own Saints years ago unless anybody thinks the likes of Toi Cook, Milton Mack, Reggie Sutton, etc. were upper echelon corners.

True, we can't realistically expect the team to replicate the Dome Patrol era but there is sufficient room to get better with the front seven -- specifically at DT and LB. And I'm not saying the team doesn't need to get better at CB either. But the team doesn't need to throw tons of money at perceived "shutdown" corners thinking it'll be a quick fix. Give just about any NFL QB enough time and he'll have your corners, whoever they are, playing chase in the open field.

The benefit of a strong front that can win at the line is solid, consistent play against both the pass and run.