Could Winston be this years version of Matt Stafford. (1 Viewer)

[jahsoul357]

I didn't disregard anything... He wasn't efficient last year. We were dead last in nearly every passing category while he started. I said I gave him credit for doing what Sean asked him to do, which is not give games away by throwing picks. What he did before he got here is a bunk argument, because what he did got him ran out of Tampa, put on a prove it deal when no one else would pay him to start, and his former team immediately won a SB the minute he left town.

It's not safe to assume anything at this point, except maybe more of what we saw last season from him... Which won't be enough to win a SB... You can't hide your QB in the NFL playoffs, or against good teams in meaningful games... He will have to be more, even with a stacked team.

And calling Brady a game manager of any kind kills your creditability... That guy has a resume that states he's the GOAT and will literally take on any role necessary to get a win... and can be great in any role.... Really bad comparison... If Brady was a Game Manager it's because the situation dictated... Not because he couldn't be more... That's pretty obvious to anyone that's watched the NFL for the past 2 decades.

Advanced stats/metrics negate your stance on him not being efficient. The problem is, most people look at raw stats and they ignore things like drops, throwaways, and passes batted, which is counted against passer rating. Couple that with the amount of times he threw the ball and that can greatly affect what those raw stats look like. But I'm pretty sure you know/knew this.

And what did his team need to do for them to win a Super Bowl? Draft Wirfs and Winfield Jr, Tom Brady recruiting AB, Gronk, Lenny and Succop to run a scaled down version of the 2019 offense and then after going 7-5, throwing Arians playbook in the trashcan to run a ball control offense and then ride the defense to a Super Bow. It sounds good saying they won a Super Bowl immediately after he left town but that pesky little thing called context kills that narrative that it was just a change in QB that did it.

And reading comprehension my friend; while there have been several playoffs where Tom Brady was carried by his defense, I was speaking directly about 2020, where the defense leveled up. They beat us because of their defense (because all of their TDs came from turnovers resulting in a short field), the Bucs defense stepping up after he threw interceptions on 3 straight possessions against the Packers, and we know what happened during the Super Bowl.

If you expect to see what we saw last year based on how things have been building up this offseason, I don't know what to tell you.

 

[Louie18914]

I didn't disregard anything... He wasn't efficient last year. We were dead last in nearly every passing category while he started. I said I gave him credit for doing what Sean asked him to do, which is not give games away by throwing picks. What he did before he got here is a bunk argument, because what he did got him ran out of Tampa, put on a prove it deal when no one else would pay him to start, and his former team immediately won a SB the minute he left town.

It's not safe to assume anything at this point, except maybe more of what we saw last season from him... Which won't be enough to win a SB... You can't hide your QB in the NFL playoffs, or against good teams in meaningful games... He will have to be more, even with a stacked team.

And calling Brady a game manager of any kind of kills your creditability... That guy has a resume that states he's the GOAT and will literally take on any role necessary to get a win... and can be great in any role.... Really bad comparison... If Brady was a Game Manager it's because the situation dictated... Not because he couldn't be more... That's pretty obvious to anyone that's watched the NFL for the past 2 decades.

the receivers was putrid last year and lacked starting caliber skillset

No Kupp or OBJ to throw to. LOL Jameis would have had minimum 20 tds in 7games

Silly Payton spent all training camp having the QB competition while he was having his wedding and getting laid. SP took it slow waiting for MT to finally comeback which he never did and the Oline starters from injury

Its a shame because Winston was having a nice game vs Tampa bay and our #1 receiver TQS (LOL) was finally connecting with Winston

Did people here watch the saints games last year? The deep downfield passes Winston threw are skillsets only 5 QBs can throw consistently

 

[webster]

Let’s hope Winston is not bad, and doesn’t lose games. To compare him to Stafford is crazy, I doubt he would expect to reach that level. After last season many on this board thought Winston would be one of the most sought after qb’s in the league, but the people who spend money for players have seen what he can do and didn’t pursue him, even the qb desperate teams. I’m pulling for Winston but realistically I hope he can play within the system and not lose games.

 

[Semper]

I'll deny it... When put into context... he had one great game, one bad game, and a hand full of games where he was mediocre / below average, and held back by Sean to minimize turnovers... Then he was out for the season. The bottom line is... we have no idea what we have with JW right now... All we have is hope that he doesn't shirt the bed with an otherwise stacked team. We were bottom ranked in nearly every offense passing category when he started last year... I give him credit for not turning the ball over., and hitting his "lay ups" in the few red zone opportunities we had.... but realistically, if we want to be a SB contender (like the rest of the roster suggests we are)... He's going to have to be more than a game manger that doesn't turn the ball over... He's going to have to put the team on his back at times.. In the biggest moment, with the most at stake... and "go win it"... I haven't seen anything close to that out of him... so yeah, I'll deny until I see it.

I mean I agree about what he did last season, however as much as I don’t personally like the guy there was something about his last game that gave me reason to believe he could be good here. All we need of him is to be average to be honest. Weapons are all around him. Manage the game, don’t make dumb decisions, and let the defense out us in a good place.

 

[webster]

I mean I agree about what he did last season, however as much as I don’t personally like the guy there was something about his last game that gave me reason to believe he could be good here. All we need of him is to be average to be honest. Weapons are all around him. Manage the game, don’t make dumb decisions, and let the defense out us in a good place.

I agree if Winston can become an average qb and avoid dumb mistakes, there is enough talent on defense to make for a good season.

 

[Louie18914]

If you mean for the Rams last season:

4,886 yards (3rd in NFL)
41 TDs (2nd in NFL)
17 Int (led league, but several other elite QBs had 13-15)
67.2 completion % (10th in NFL behind some playoff-missing QBs)
8.1 yards per attempt (3rd in NFL)
102.9 passer rating (6th in NFL)

Stats are deceiving. Thats why the NFL started another QB rating system

Put Goffs stats up with the Rams and under Mcvay (Not with Fisher or Cambell)

Goffs stats are not bad and compatible to Staffords. Just from looking at Goffs stats you would question why a QB change was needed

 

[SystemShock]

Winston is not a hired gun. This will be his 3rd year with the team, and even was the starter before he got hurt.

 

[BayouSAINTJoe]

Please sweet 7lb 6oz baby Jesus let Jameis mess up so that we can trade next year's 2nd for Carson Strong to save our season

 

[SilverSaint]

***Mcvay would have won the Superbowl if it was either Stafford or Burrows as his QB

Blasphemy, JMFB is the real deal. He made Cincinnati an instant contender.

 

[Infoman]

Advanced stats/metrics negate your stance on him not being efficient. The problem is, most people look at raw stats and they ignore things like drops, throwaways, and passes batted, which is counted against passer rating. Couple that with the amount of times he threw the ball and that can greatly affect what those raw stats look like. But I'm pretty sure you know/knew this.

And what did his team need to do for them to win a Super Bowl? Draft Wirfs and Winfield Jr, Tom Brady recruiting AB, Gronk, Lenny and Succop to run a scaled down version of the 2019 offense and then after going 7-5, throwing Arians playbook in the trashcan to run a ball control offense and then ride the defense to a Super Bow. It sounds good saying they won a Super Bowl immediately after he left town but that pesky little thing called context kills that narrative that it was just a change in QB that did it.

And reading comprehension my friend; while there have been several playoffs where Tom Brady was carried by his defense, I was speaking directly about 2020, where the defense leveled up. They beat us because of their defense (because all of their TDs came from turnovers resulting in a short field), the Bucs defense stepping up after he threw interceptions on 3 straight possessions against the Packers, and we know what happened during the Super Bowl.

If you expect to see what we saw last year based on how things have been building up this offseason, I don't know what to tell you.

"Advanced stats/metrics"

We can slice this turkey however you want, and try to pretty it up... It's still a turkey until proven otherwise. You can make excuses for him in Tampa until you run out of words... Doesn't change the fact that they let him walk after drafting him #1 overall... and found immediate and lasting success right after he left and they replaced him with the GOAT. (Shocking! I know...)

I can present advanced stats that could make it seem like I am extremely tall... If I use only the data I cherry pick... and compare myself to elves instead of giants...

The proof is in the results... and thus far... He has no championship caliber results (and it's not close)... Tom has like 20% of all Championship results All-Time... And has done so in any form necessary to get them... Gun Slinger, Game Manager, Cheerleader, you name it...

Until JW does anything on a NFL football field that resembles Championship QBing... the over zealous expectations of him all of a sudden becoming Matt Stafford or (LOL) Tommy B... Needs to be CTFO.

Oh yeah... I would love to see him make a complete arse of me on this topic... because if he manages to do all the things I have not seen him do, or believe him capable of... I will be celebrating a 2nd Saints SB win more then likely.... and will gladly admit I was wrong.

 

[Doug B]

Stats are deceiving. Thats why the NFL started another QB rating system

Matthew Stafford was 4th in the league in QBR. Never, ever going to agree that Stafford left something to be desired in 2021 for the Rams. Top-level stats across the board (and IMHO, the INTs didn't matter so much) AND a title.

If that's just a "good" season, give me good QB seasons all day.

 

[Doug B]

Put Goffs stats up with the Rams and under Mcvay (Not with Fisher or Cambell)

Goffs stats are not bad and compatible to Staffords. Just from looking at Goffs stats you would question why a QB change was needed

Goff regressed tremendously after opponents caught on to McVay's "reading the defense from sidelines" scheme -- look at the drop in YPA, passer rating, and QBR from 2017-18 to 2019-20. Stafford was a big upgrade from Goff for the Rams.

Jared Goff Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Jared Goff: piece of work: QB, Career: 83 G, 10 TD, 2xProBowl, Rams/Lions 2016-2021, born CA 1994

www.pro-football-reference.com

Matthew Stafford Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Matthew Stafford: piece of work: QB, Career: 182 G, 14 TD, ProBowl, Lions/Rams 2009-2021, 1x Int Leader, born FL 1988

www.pro-football-reference.com

 

[jahsoul357]

"Advanced stats/metrics"

We can slice this turkey however you want, and try to pretty it up... It's still a turkey until proven otherwise. You can make excuses for him in Tampa until you run out of words... Doesn't change the fact that they let him walk after drafting him #1 overall... and found immediate and lasting success right after he left and they replaced him with the GOAT.

I can present advanced stats that could make it seem like I am extremely tall... If I use only the data I choose... and compare myself to elves instead of giants...

The proof is in the results... and thus far... He has no championship caliber results (and it's not close)... Tom has like 20% of all Championship results All-Time... And has done so in any form necessary to get them... Gun Slinger, Game Manager, Cheerleader, you name it...

Until JW does anything on a NFL football field that resembles Championship QBing... the over zealous expectations of him all of a sudden becoming Matt Stafford or (LOL) Tommy B... Needs to be CTFO.

Oh yeah... I would love to see him make a complete arse of me on this topic... because if he manages to do all the things I have not seen him do, or believe him capable of... I will be celebrating a 2nd Saints SB win more then likely.

I will take advanced stats over raw stats every day of the week because advanced stats always tells context. Case in point; we can look at what he did in Tampa and we can put 2 and 2 together.



The average depth of throw can increase chances of incompletes and interceptions. Let's also take into account the Air-Yards% and the fact that during his time with the bucs, he was responsible for nearly 64% of his nearly 20k yards. Now, using the top 10 that Shannon Sharpe said that he would choose over Kirk Cousins (lol), let's see how they stack (since 2015).

Mahomes 47%
Rodgers 48%
Herbert 49%
Stafford 51%
Brady 52%
Murray 52%
Burrow 53%
Allen 56%
Wilson 57%
Watson 57%

We are not even going to compare IAY. But this is why I like advanced stats. Because context is king in evaluation.

With that out the way, the "immediate success" of the Bucs is a lazy narrative and I will always call out the fact that they actually filled holes outside of QB that was needed and the major thing that was addressed was changing the offense. Brady is the GOAT but couldn't finish a season running No Risk It, No Biscuit Lite. It is what it is. They won and that's that but there is a reason Todd Bowles got that extension at the end of the season. lol.

As long as Jameis has "Saints QB#1" attached to his name, I will ride hard for him and from the looks of the draft and free agency, so is the org. I can spend all my time trying to nitpick at reasons Jameis could fail or enjoy the new chapter of Saints football with a QB who has the talent to go far, now with a competent organization, great coaching, and a complete team. I choose to do the latter and whatever happens, happens.

Matthew Stafford was 4th in the league in QBR. Never, ever going to agree that Stafford left something to be desired in 2021 for the Rams. Top-level stats across the board (and IMHO, the INTs didn't matter so much) AND a title.

If that's just a "good" season, give me good QB seasons all day.

I will always put respect of Stafford's name because he gave Auburn that work every year he was at Georgia. Couldn't beat that bastage for nothing..lol

 

[Jesse Custer]

Please sweet 7lb 6oz baby Jesus let Jameis mess up so that we can trade next year's 2nd for Carson Strong to save our season

WE STILL SHOULDA PICKED RIDDER IN THE FIRST

 

[Semper]

I will take advanced stats over raw stats every day of the week because advanced stats always tells context. Case in point; we can look at what he did in Tampa and we can put 2 and 2 together.



The average depth of throw can increase chances of incompletes and interceptions. Let's also take into account the Air-Yards% and the fact that during his time with the bucs, he was responsible for nearly 64% of his nearly 20k yards. Now, using the top 10 that Shannon Sharpe said that he would choose over Kirk Cousins (lol), let's see how they stack (since 2015).

Mahomes 47%
Rodgers 48%
Herbert 49%
Stafford 51%
Brady 52%
Murray 52%
Burrow 53%
Allen 56%
Wilson 57%
Watson 57%

We are not even going to compare IAY. But this is why I like advanced stats. Because context is king in evaluation.

With that out the way, the "immediate success" of the Bucs is a lazy narrative and I will always call out the fact that they actually filled holes outside of QB that was needed and the major thing that was addressed was changing the offense. Brady is the GOAT but couldn't finish a season running No Risk It, No Biscuit Lite. It is what it is. They won and that's that but there is a reason Todd Bowles got that extension at the end of the season. lol.

As long as Jameis has "Saints QB#1" attached to his name, I will ride hard for him and from the looks of the draft and free agency, so is the org. I can spend all my time trying to nitpick at reasons Jameis could fail or enjoy the new chapter of Saints football with a QB who has the talent to go far, now with a competent organization, great coaching, and a complete team. I choose to do the latter and whatever happens, happens.



I will always put respect of Stafford's name because he gave Auburn that work every year he was at Georgia. Couldn't beat that bastage for nothing..lol

Well articulate response.