COVID-19 Outbreak Information Updates (Reboot) [over 150.000,000 US cases (est.), 6,422,520 US hospitilizations, 1,148,691 US deaths.] (9 Viewers)

[UncleTrvlingJim]

Really? Well then what's the point in any of this... if antibodies don't last long and that people who have had it before can still get infected?

If we are always going to get reinfected when (re)exposed within a few months or less, why develop or wait on a vaccine? A vaccine is a substance used to stimulate the production of antibodies and provide immunity, isn't it?

Like I said, I am past the mask argument... It's dumb. I heard experts say at the beginning they do more harm than good... Then they say, you have to wear them to save lives... Then they say masks only help those that have it from spreading, but don't stop you from getting it... Whatever.... I'd wear one even if it did nothing but stop people from talking about masks.

Still lots of unknowns. It's been reported for a couple of months now that recovered COVID-19 patients' antibodies seem to decrease with time. We don't know what that means as far as re-infection (there have been a couple of reports of a recovered patient being diagnosed again at a later date, but it's unclear if that's because they never fully recovered or if it's a true re-infection). Further, we don't know how anti-bodies from a vaccine will behave. It could be like the flu vaccine where we have to get it every year. Or it could be like a tetanus shot where you get one every couple of years, or it could be like polio where you only get it once.

So, in areas where there are unknowns, precautions are low cost, and severity is high, it's prudent to continue the low cost prevention. Because we aren't at a point where we can monitor people who have sufficient anti-bodies to prevent infection and spread, it would be really high cost to create a system where those people can walk around without masks and while everyone wears a mask, it's far more efficient to just have everyone wear a mask. Low cost, decent rewards.

I understand you aren't arguing against wearing a mask... just point out a reason why even previously infected people should continue to wear one.

 

[boutrous]

Not arguing the mask thing... Even though every medical expert I have heard from says the mask is to stop active carriers from spreading, and does not stop people from contracting it.... to me the mask argument is dumb brain fodder - if it makes people feel better and does absolutely nothing, I would still wear one personally.

My understanding is that with positive antibodies, they are likely immune to reinfection... and with a clean nasal swab they can't spread it (right?)....

My question is... why is there not a special category for people like this when being counted? And why are we not identifying them to move us forward?

I know 4 of these types personally now (just within my small circle of people)... and yeah, they all still wear masks in public.

Really? Well then what's the point in any of this... if antibodies don't last long and that people who have had it before can still get infected?

If we are always going to get reinfected when (re)exposed within a few months or less, why develop or wait on a vaccine? A vaccine is a substance used to stimulate the production of antibodies and provide immunity, isn't it?

Like I said, I am past the mask argument... It's dumb. I heard experts say at the beginning they do more harm than good... Then they say, you have to wear them to save lives... Then they say masks only help those that have it from spreading, but don't stop you from getting it... Whatever.... I'd wear one even if it did nothing but stop people from talking about masks.

Hospitals are asked to stop sending data to the CDC that they have been sending data to all along and to start sending it to some new repository and you want them to make special categories of people in different levels of infection? You are asking a lot, I believe. Being a general data expert, I do not believe that data is being sent to any sort of repository that can accurately show an exact timeline of an individual's infection / antibody levels in order to make this sort of classification. In fact, it seems to me that only the only information being sent is numbers of tests and if those test are positive or negative. So let's say a person takes 4 different tests and 2 are positive and 2 are negative. I do not think there is anything in place that is analyzing the likely hood of a bad test or if that person was contagious in June but not July. At least not available to the masses and I'm not sure we would want there to be. As I said, i think you are asking for too much and that would be a lot of data points to analyze.

But yea, I think misinformation has been the reason why our country is such a mess right now... from Covid-19. We rarely get data presented to us without it coming in a manner that is pushing an agenda. And then we don't get the whole story.

Masks work to both decrease your likely hood of contracting a virus and the likely hood of you spreading a virus. Different types of masks (design wise and material wise) are better at either or function, as is frequency and proper use. The initial statements of effectiveness were because people were not using them correctly and also to prevent a sellout of truely effective masks when they were needed for health care professionals. However, it was soon realized that any mask is better than no mask, but the damage of the initial statements were already done in many ways.

 

[St. Widge]

So a monthly vaccine shot for every person in the world from now until the end of time (being as those antibodies are only good for a month or 2)?

And you still have piss on your leg.... J/K

Like I said... totally past the mask argument... I wear one... not a big deal. (for the 5th time)

A vaccine isn't the same thing as getting natural immunity for a period of time from having had it. Especially not the new RNA vaccines which is the type that will likely get to market first. It's not the old days where you just get a shot of inactive virus that helps you develop antibodies to an active version.

But, it's possible it could be like the flu vaccine where you get a new one every year that is designed to fight off the newest strain of COVID. Hopefully they will be better at picking the strains than they have been recently with the flu.

 

[Charlie Brizzown]

Really? Well then what's the point in any of this... if antibodies don't last long and that people who have had it before can still get infected?

If we are always going to get reinfected when (re)exposed within a few months or less, why develop or wait on a vaccine? A vaccine is a substance used to stimulate the production of antibodies and provide immunity, isn't it?

Like I said, I am past the mask argument... It's dumb. I heard experts say at the beginning they do more harm than good... Then they say, you have to wear them to save lives... Then they say masks only help those that have it from spreading, but don't stop you from getting it... Whatever.... I'd wear one even if it did nothing but stop people from talking about masks.

Thats science, where it’s perfectly acceptable to change recommendations based on new information. As opposed to recommendations based off of some other biased motivations and then not budging when mounds of information says otherwise.

Also I’d like to make a distinction from your previous post where you said masks stop infectious people from spreading and masks don’t prevent from becoming infected. It’s not as black white as the way you worded it. Masks don’t stop infectious people from spreading, they help decrease the chance of people spreading it. And healthy masks wearers likely have a slightly better chance of not becoming infected.

And of course, since you never really know if someone is not infected, everyone should wear a mask.

 

[Saint_Ward]

Just some personnel experience information here, and a question:

I now have heard from 4 close friends / family members in the last month that all tested positive for Covid doing the blood test....

All of their blood tests returned the IgM Positive result (meaning active or new infection)...

Every one of them got a nasal swab test within 48 hours of that blood test result, and every one of those came back negative...

Is anyone else hearing or seeing this (first or second hand)? Are the blood tests really that inaccurate? If so, how can we trust the data collected via those blood tests?

I mean 4 for 4 false positives just in my small little bubble sample seems kinda scary.

(I have been waiting to pose this question since the first 3 people gave me the same news... a close friend I really trust hit me with the exact same result today, so I had to ask now - can't be a coincidence now, right?)

May have been answered, but the blood test only shows you had a past covid19 infection, not current.

Swabs are for current.

If the swabs didn't get enough sample, or were stored too hot, it can give a false negative.

 

[Infoman]

Thats science, where it’s perfectly acceptable to change recommendations based on new information. As opposed to recommendations based off of some other biased motivations and then not budging when mounds of information says otherwise.

Also I’d like to make a distinction from your previous post where you said masks stop infectious people from spreading and masks don’t prevent from becoming infected. It’s not as black white as the way you worded it. Masks don’t stop infectious people from spreading, they help decrease the chance of people spreading it. And healthy masks wearers likely have a slightly better chance of not becoming infected.

And of course, since you never really know if someone is not infected, everyone should wear a mask.

The recommendations weren't made on changing science... masks have been worn during viral outbreaks since about the turn of the 20th century...

I am more concerned with how we contextually count and classify these cases so we can make actual data driven science based decisions, and get us to a point where we can be both safe and functional.

My question arose because I now know 4 people in my life that have had a positive Covid blood test, directly followed by a negative nasal swab Covid test.... and none experienced any symptoms... 4 for 4 just in my small circle of friends/family.

Like I said, I am over the mask discussion (for the 6th time - LOL).... I think it's like boutrous said...

I think misinformation has been the reason why our country is such a mess right now... from Covid-19. We rarely get data presented to us without it coming in a manner that is pushing an agenda. And then we don't get the whole story.

The initial statements of effectiveness were because people were not using them correctly and also to prevent a sellout of truely effective masks when they were needed for health care professionals. However, it was soon realized that any mask is better than no mask, but the damage of the initial statements were already done in many ways.

 

[buzd]

 

[Saint_Ward]

Not arguing the mask thing... Even though every medical expert I have heard from says the mask is to stop active carriers from spreading, and does not stop people from contracting it.... to me the mask argument is dumb brain fodder - if it makes people feel better and does absolutely nothing, I would still wear one personally.

My understanding is that with positive antibodies, they are likely immune to reinfection... and with a clean nasal swab they can't spread it (right?)....

My question is... why is there not a special category for people like this when being counted? And why are we not identifying them to move us forward?

I know 4 of these types personally now (just within my small circle of people)... and yeah, they all still wear masks in public.

The short answer is we don't know enough about long term immunity, reinfection or transmission.

The only likely take away is that if they caught it again, they wouldn't get that sick. Antibodies don't last forever, but memory cells should be there to turn on the factory.

 

[Goatman Saint]

Couple things. If someone has a strong running antibody count, their chance of reinfection and it progressing into anything major is slight. Now, the antibodies do disappear with time for any virus/immunization. Now, somebody up on this can I’m sure explain it further as my infections disease classes fade away. Antibodies are active immunity. They sit in your body ready to attack. Now if I remember right, your killer T cells will retain that memory for a much longer duration. So if you get exposed again, your body doesn’t have to sit and figure out how to create and immune response, it already knows it and will ramp the attack up much faster, preventing the next sickness. This is where you see challenge tests to determine if a body can still produce antibodies quickly.

Think of a rabies shot. Originally they could detect the antibodies still strong but declining at a year. Hence yearly rabies shots. Now they have one that goes three years. However, they are finding that if they take the animals that have had their first 2 vaccines on time and had positive responses, then the animal has a challenge immunity pretty much for life.

Now, I know I’m screwing up vocabulary, and my memory is fuzzy I admit. But that’s the general idea behind long term immunity.

 

[Charlie Brizzown]

The recommendations weren't made on changing science... masks have been worn during viral outbreaks since about the turn of the 20th century...

I don't know, I keep seeing studies about the effectiveness of masks for the prevention of spreading and getting infected with the virus. Maybe it's not as clear as you think.

I am more concerned with how we contextually count and classify these cases so we can make actual data driven science based decisions, and get us to a point where we can be both safe and functional.

My question arose because I now know 4 people in my life that have had a positive Covid blood test, directly followed by a negative nasal swab Covid test.... and none experienced any symptoms... 4 for 4 just in my small circle of friends/family.

I agree, more accurate data is better. But with what we currently know and suspect about antibodies and reinfection, I think creating a separate category for people who currently have antibodies is a monumental task we aren't capable of performing at the moment without exponential increase in resources we throw at the problem. We don't currently know how long the antibodies will last, which means if we want to base some sort of opening America up again based on those numbers then we'd have to constantly be testing those people to see if they still have the antibodies ... over and over again. We already don't have enough testing capacity.

Like I said, I am over the mask discussion (for the 6th time - LOL).... I think it's like boutrous said...

Thought it was an important distinction to make. In case you weren't aware, or at the very least for other casual observers.

 

[bclemms]

...

 

[Infoman]

So based on that... The 4 people in my circle can't catch (active antibodies in their recent blood test) and can't spread it (recent negative nasal swab).... correct?

If that's the case, I think that's fairly important for them (and the world) to know... even if it's only for 2 - 3- 4 months or whatever the guessed time frame is... It means that they can work right now.

I know I am over simplifying but it seems like a pretty clear formula... Active antibody blood test + Negative Nasal swab + Relative recency = Can't get it, and can't pass it for a few months at worst. I think that's pretty note worthy given the current state of the country.

 

[Goatman Saint]

The mask thing someone posted a couple days ago. It does dramatically decrease the virus from someone. But, what research is finding is that they also cut down the amount the recipient gets. Lower viral load, less chance of severe Covid. So, while it didn’t address the idea it wouldn’t happen, research now suggests that they will lower the load and bench you will be less sick. Which is good enough for
Me

 

[Saint_Ward]

TSA checkpoint travel numbers have flat lined around 400-600k/day. Big improvement over the 50-100k/day at the height of the shut downs, but not near the 2.5-2.7 million a day that were screened last year each day.

 

[SWJJ]

So based on that... The 4 people in my circle can't catch (active antibodies in their recent blood test) and can't spread it (recent negative nasal swab).... correct?

If that's the case, I think that's fairly important for them (and the world) to know... even if it's only for 2 - 3- 4 months or whatever the guessed time frame is... It means that they can work right now.

I know I am over simplifying but it seems like a pretty clear formula... Active antibody blood test + Negative Nasal swab + Relative recency = Can't get it, and can't pass it for a few months at worst. I think that's pretty note worthy given the current state of the country.

You have to be careful about this. Did they have all 3 antibodies screened? There are various strains of the virus now and there are testing for the presence 2 or 3 (depending on the tests) antibodies.

If you have had one strain, depending on the antibodies you are producing, you can catch the other strain, and there is also evidence that the antibodies go away, which means you can catch it a second and other subsequent times.

Coronavirus antibodies may disappear after mere months in some people, research shows. But it's not necessarily a reason to panic.

Scientists still don't know how long coronavirus antibodies last or what level you need to be protected from future infection.

news.yahoo.com