COVID-19 Outbreak Information Updates (Reboot) 35,147,918 US cases, 625,852 US deaths.] (34 Viewers)

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Another thing to consider is: Are all cases to be treated as equal? Is a case in a vaccinated person in July 2021 the same public issue of concern as a case in an unvaccinated person in July 2020?

Influenza is known to produce large numbers of asymptomatic infections even in low-vaccination populations. So far as I'm aware, most viral infections are the same way.
Likely not. A year ago if I had the sniffles I would get tested. Now? I’m vaccinated...so I’m infinitely less likely.
 

superchuck500

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I highly doubt that vaccinated people are the problem. I personally don’t think vaccinated people really need to wear masks, because I’m not convinced that they are at any higher risk of dying from COVID than your average person during flu season. Even with delta...the death rate is incredibly low in vaccinated individuals.

If there is a gripe...it is that by allowing vaccinated people to not wear masks it encouraged businesses to loosen their broad mask wearing protocols...so more unvaccinated people got it and a percentage of those died.

I don't think death is the only problematic result here.
 

Saint_Ward

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I highly doubt that vaccinated people are the problem. I personally don’t think vaccinated people really need to wear masks, because I’m not convinced that they are at any higher risk of dying from COVID than your average person during flu season. Even with delta...the death rate is incredibly low in vaccinated individuals.

If there is a gripe...it is that by allowing vaccinated people to not wear masks it encouraged businesses to loosen their broad mask wearing protocols...so more unvaccinated people got it and a percentage of those died.
No one wanted to get into the process of making people prove they are vaccinated, to be allowed to not wear a mask.

The problem with the honor system we have is that millions of Americans have no honor.
 

Saint_Ward

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I don't think death is the only problematic result here.
Of course, but we do need to realize that 2020 doing everything we could to avoid getting sick is not the long term norm.

We will start to catch colds, and that's OK. But it just isn't as ok as it was in 2018. There will be a transition back.

A covid case for a vaccinated person should be seen as less of a big deal.

With the current environment I'd still get tested and quarantine. Would be dumb to infect a whole business or get fired for not reporting it.

And to add, with Delta surging and the south being a hot spot again, I think I'm going to be going back to wearing a mask at work. I still do at the store. I went to a bar on Sunday. So... that was the only risky thing I've done in a month.
 

AARPSaint

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No one wanted to get into the process of making people prove they are vaccinated, to be allowed to not wear a mask.

The problem with the honor system we have is that millions of Americans have no honor.
As my high school chemistry and physics teacher would say, "The teachers have the honor, and the kids have the system."
 

Sailorsaint

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I highly doubt that vaccinated people are the problem. I personally don’t think vaccinated people really need to wear masks, because I’m not convinced that they are at any higher risk of dying from COVID than your average person during flu season. Even with delta...the death rate is incredibly low in vaccinated individuals.

If there is a gripe...it is that by allowing vaccinated people to not wear masks it encouraged businesses to loosen their broad mask wearing protocols...so more unvaccinated people got it and a percentage of those died.
The problem with vaccinated people not wearing masks is that they can still transmit it to unvaccinated people...who aren't wearing masks. I'm vaccinated, as is my elderly father who I'm caring for, and I mask whenever I go to the store for lots of reasons...I don't want to pick it up from someone and pass it on to someone is the biggest reason.
 

Saint_Ward

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I have yet to see a convincing study that shows significant morbidity in individuals who are vaccinated that get COVID.
Over 50 may be interesting.

Posted something in one of these threads that the median age of vaccinated that died was 86.

So, I think thr elderly should still proceed with caution. Even Faucci had said he still masks up depending on the relative risk, because he's old.
 
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Over 50 may be interesting.

Posted something in one of these threads that the median age of vaccinated that died was 86.

So, I think thr elderly should still proceed with caution. Even Faucci had said he still masks up depending on the relative risk, because he's old.
An 86 year old can die if you breath in their direction the wrong way. The fact that the average age of death is so insanely high...well beyond life expectancy...sort of tells the story.
 
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The problem with vaccinated people not wearing masks is that they can still transmit it to unvaccinated people...who aren't wearing masks. I'm vaccinated, as is my elderly father who I'm caring for, and I mask whenever I go to the store for lots of reasons...I don't want to pick it up from someone and pass it on to someone is the biggest reason.
If you have someone close to you that you care about that either won’t or can’t get vaccinated...I completely get it. I don’t have anyone like that in my life...so the benefit of wearing a mask seems minimal. I still carry the mask around with me and wear it when I’m asked or in very crowded situations, though.
 

Arathrael

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An 86 can die if you breath in their direction the wrong way. The fact that the average age of death is so insanely high...well beyond life expectancy sort of tells the story.
That tells us that COVID is especially lethal to the elderly, not that 86 year olds are all about to die anyway.

For one thing, it's comparing a median (age of death from COVID) to a mean (life expectancy from birth), and the mean is skewed; most people outlive that life expectancy (i.e. the median age of death is typically a few years higher than the mean).

And for another. the life expectancy of an 86 year old is also naturally higher than the life expectancy from birth. The death probability of an 86 year old in the USA is around 10.9% (men)/8.3% (women), and the life expectancy of an 86 year old in the USA is five and a half years for men, six and a half years for women. https://www.ssa.gov/oact/STATS/table4c6.html
 
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That tells us that COVID is especially lethal to the elderly, not that 86 year olds are all about to die anyway.

For one thing, it's comparing a median (age of death from COVID) to a mean (life expectancy from birth), and the mean is skewed; most people outlive that life expectancy (i.e. the median age of death is typically a few years higher than the mean).

And for another. the life expectancy of an 86 year old is also naturally higher than the life expectancy from birth. The death probability of an 86 year old in the USA is around 10.9% (men)/8.3% (women), and the life expectancy of an 86 year old in the USA is five and a half years for men, six and a half years for women. https://www.ssa.gov/oact/STATS/table4c6.html
Everything is especially lethal in someone 86
 

superchuck500

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That tells us that COVID is especially lethal to the elderly, not that 86 year olds are all about to die anyway.

For one thing, it's comparing a median (age of death from COVID) to a mean (life expectancy from birth), and the mean is skewed; most people outlive that life expectancy (i.e. the median age of death is typically a few years higher than the mean).

And for another. the life expectancy of an 86 year old is also naturally higher than the life expectancy from birth. The death probability of an 86 year old in the USA is around 10.9% (men)/8.3% (women), and the life expectancy of an 86 year old in the USA is five and a half years for men, six and a half years for women. https://www.ssa.gov/oact/STATS/table4c6.html

Another caveat with using total Covid data is that it reflects rates of severity and mortality across all strains, with a great deal of it being associated with the ancestral strain, pre-variant. But that's not really indicative of the current rates of severity and mortality if the present dominant variant has higher rates of severity and mortality than its predecessors. To evaluate current and future risk, you have to isolate batches of more recent data, providing you have enough to be statistically relevant.

But again, using rate of death as the key data point is going to under-appreciate the impact of the virus in a given community and on infected individuals. Rates of hospitalization and rates of longer term impact have to be included to get a more complete picture of impact.
 

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