COVID-19 Outbreak Information Updates (Reboot) [over 150.000,000 US cases (est.), 6,422,520 US hospitilizations, 1,148,691 US deaths.] (9 Viewers)

[DaveXA]

Well, then you've got people taking Fauci's comments completely out of context and claiming he's ordering everyone to wear the face guards when he said no such thing.

It's aggravating how people frame comments to fit their own narrative biases, particularly when they don't reflect the intent of the person making the comments. Context matters, and Fauci is a smart guy. I trust his comments as an expert on Covid far more than some talking head on tv or reporter in news publications.

 

[Arathrael]

So, they are announcing right now what the provincial return-to-school will look like here. We report back on Sept 8 and it will be:

• 500 hundred nurses being hired for school surveilliance, testing, and monitoring only
• 1300 extra (minimum) extra janitorial staff hired for around the clock, with more intense/deeper/frequent cleaning
• students will have 5 days of instruction
• 300 minutes of instruction per day - in our school, it will be a single class per day (like a summer school course)
• mandatory masks for grades 4-12 students
• de-densification of spaces, so cohorts of 15 students per class 4-12 - students will travel with the same group
• elementary and middle will be on campus every day
• high school will alternate days - on campus and remotely
• PPE provided by the province to teachers and schools (primarily masks and hand sanitizer and wipes and etc); and masks for students will also be provided by the province
• increased funding for mental health support and the hiring of therapy staff to be available for students and teaching faculty
• on campus testing to track any asymptomatic carriers

I think those are the highlights - but if there are questions or more details wanted, just ask

It's the same here in England, except schools resume the week before. And there's no extra nurses. And no extra cleaners. And no de-densification of spaces. And no alternating days. And no PPE (unless a child develops symptoms at school and even then only if they can't keep 2m away from them), no masks, no increased funding for mental health support, and no on campus testing.

But we are planning substantial measures including:

• Requiring people who are ill to stay home
• Washing hands a lot
• Telling the existing staff to just do more cleaning
• Reminding people who are ill to get tested by the NHS
• Thinking about how to reduce contacts and maximise distancing between those in school wherever possible and minimise potential for contamination so far as is reasonably practicable. So not necessarily doing anything, but definitely considering it.
• Arranging classrooms with forward facing desks

So as you can see, England is totally on top of this.

Also we've just put extra lockdown measures on four million people in the North of England with two hours' notice last night, and today we're requiring masks in more indoor places, and we've just postponed easing lockdown measures for at least two weeks with less than a day's notice (things like wedding receptions for up to 30 people were supposed to be allowed from tomorrow). And England's chief medical officer thinks we may have reached the limit of how much we can reopen society and the economy without viral spread. So I'm not sure how our (totally comprehensive and definitely not substituting wishful thinking for recognition of the underlying reality and adjusting accordingly) plans for reopening schools will hold up, but I suspect with just a bit more wishful thinking, it'll be fine. <insert 'this is fine' dog>.

 

[Dan in Lafayette]

NEJM has been the gold standard in medicine for eons. They are neither politically driven nor religiously backed.
If you read the study they detailed their criticisms of the study.

But yet they retracted their report. Some gold standard.

 

[where yat brah]

The retracted report was in June.
This is from a couple days ago.
At least they are making an effort to be correct.
When the hydroxycq studies get debunked, they are just left out there to fester.

 

[Dan in Lafayette]

Well, then you've got people taking Fauci's comments completely out of context and claiming he's ordering everyone to wear the face guards when he said no such thing.

It's aggravating how people frame comments to fit their own narrative biases, particularly when they don't reflect the intent of the person making the comments. Context matters, and Fauci is a smart guy. I trust his comments as an expert on Covid far more than some talking head on tv or reporter in news publications.

The retracted report was in June.
This is from a couple days ago.
At least they are making an effort to be correct.
When the hydroxycq studies get debunked, they are just left out there to fester.

The problem is they have not been debunked and I have shown two peer-reviewed studies worthy of consideration. If we are really going to try to fight COVID full force we should not diminish any possibilities based on pre-conceived ideas.

 

[DaveXA]

The problem is they have not been debunked and I have shown two peer-reviewed studies worthy of consideration. If we are really going to try to fight COVID full force we should not diminish any possibilities based on pre-conceived ideas.

Maybe not, but so far, their effectiveness in trials have been questionable. I'm fine with continuing studies. But it seems at this point that there is a lot we still don't fully understand, not only about the virus, but also the treatments.

The experts can get things wrong, and sometimes outside influences affect their decision making. But (not directed at you) science being hijacked in the name of politics and the screaming coming from wannabe experts is getting old.

 

[someone]

Well, then you've got people taking Fauci's comments completely out of context and claiming he's ordering everyone to wear the face guards when he said no such thing.

It's aggravating how people frame comments to fit their own narrative biases, particularly when they don't reflect the intent of the person making the comments. Context matters, and Fauci is a smart guy. I trust his comments as an expert on Covid far more than some talking head on tv or reporter in news publications.

Furthermore, if Fauci and the science community all of the sudden did recommend everyone wear goggles or face shields (which he's not, yet), we should all do it. That's what a united country looking to eradicate a virus would do. Listen to their experts. Instead, we like to debate and argue things until it's too late.

 

[DaveXA]

Furthermore, if Fauci and the science community all of the sudden did recommend everyone wear goggles or face shields (which he's not, yet), we should all do it. That's what a united country looking to eradicate a virus would do. Listen to their experts. Instead, we like to debate and argue things until it's too late.

I agree. But, we as a nation have decided to do the opposite of whatever the other side is doing. It's completely stupid, and largely why we're in this mess to begin with.

 

[bclemms]

The problem is they have not been debunked and I have shown two peer-reviewed studies worthy of consideration. If we are really going to try to fight COVID full force we should not diminish any possibilities based on pre-conceived ideas.

There are still more than a half of a dozen other studies on Hydroxy that all say the same thing.

The studies you quoted saying Hydroxy work are based on the work of the great Dr. Zelenco. A strip mall Dr. in New York (since fired) that treated 699 Covid patients with Hydroxy, zinc and z-pac without a single person dying. Pretty remarkable results. It's too bad only the dozen or so that were admitted to the hospital ever got tested for Covid and he's unwilling to release any records proving he treated these people. He's also a long time Trump supporter. He is now also under investigation for fraud by the FDA.

Here in Jackson, we found out that 90% of patients were treated with Hydroxy despite the requests of physicians to stop using it due to poor outcomes in yet another study showing Hydroxy doesn't work.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.06.30.20137752v1.full.pdf?fbclid=IwAR3qogAYTyagNypVjK50E0ARiLA6Pq85MorTGGVneKVf29jV9cllOywjcbA

So either a Malaria drug doesn't work to treat Covid and an antibiotic doesn't work to treat a virus or it's a global conspiracy that only Trump and Bolsonero are trying to save us from. It's too bad that these doctors claiming all the amazing impacts of Hydroxy refuse to release any data.


It could be that an antiviral turns out to work better on a virus than an antibacterial medicine instead of a global conspiracy. The steroid treatments are some of the cheapest and most widely available drugs on the market so that kind of kills the whole profit driven motives.

 

[Dan in Lafayette]

Maybe not, but so far, their effectiveness in trials have been questionable. I'm fine with continuing studies. But it seems at this point that there is a lot we still don't fully understand, not only about the virus, but also the treatments.

The experts can get things wrong, and sometimes outside influences affect their decision making. But science being hijacked in the name of politics and the screaming coming from wannabe experts is getting old.

So what do we do, Dave? Ignore everything that has been studied so far? Do we just ignore the two peer-reviewed studies I discussed? As somebody that worries a helluva lot about this virus, I am not just willing to wave my arms and say, "But it seems at this point that there is a lot we still don't fully understand, not only about the virus, but also the treatments."

Dave, we have been fighting this for months now and yet people are dying while the tribal politicians are still having a dick-measuring contests.

And yes, science is most certainly "being hijacked in the name of politics and the screaming coming from wannabe experts is getting old." When scientists become politicians, we only get to their desired truth, not the real truth.

 

[Dan in Lafayette]

There are still more than a half of a dozen other studies on Hydroxy that all say the same thing.

The studies you quoted saying Hydroxy work are based on the work of the great Dr. Zelenco. A strip mall Dr. in New York (since fired) that treated 699 Covid patients with Hydroxy, zinc and z-pac without a single person dying. Pretty remarkable results. It's too bad only the dozen or so that were admitted to the hospital ever got tested for Covid and he's unwilling to release any records proving he treated these people. He's also a long time Trump supporter. He is now also under investigation for fraud by the FDA.

Here in Jackson, we found out that 90% of patients were treated with Hydroxy despite the requests of physicians to stop using it due to poor outcomes in yet another study showing Hydroxy doesn't work.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.06.30.20137752v1.full.pdf?fbclid=IwAR3qogAYTyagNypVjK50E0ARiLA6Pq85MorTGGVneKVf29jV9cllOywjcbA

So either a Malaria drug doesn't work to treat Covid and an antibiotic doesn't work to treat a virus or it's a global conspiracy that only Trump and Bolsonero are trying to save us from. It's too bad that these doctors claiming all the amazing impacts of Hydroxy refuse to release any data.


It could be that an antiviral turns out to work better on a virus than an antibacterial medicine instead of a global conspiracy. The steroid treatments are some of the cheapest and most widely available drugs on the market so that kind of kills the whole profit driven motives.

Those are not scientific peer-reviewed studies. But what I posted is at least worth discussing and not be dismissed off-hand.

Brandon, you need to lose all your vitriol. It seems to be consuming you and that's not healthy. Open your mind to other ideas. Your way may not be the only way and maybe you need to .open your mind to other opinions. I am worried about you and the anger that seems to be consuming you. Take a deep breath my friend and try to find a calmer space for at least a little while.

 

[St. Geezy]

You win the thread for the day sir!

Thanks.

The more I think about it, it's craziness.

Whether you believe it is warranted or not, within the first month, people will be freaking out about all the school outbreaks and the whole thing will quickly be shut down again.

It's also not fair to say "Oh children have been fine thus far.".... well children have been the most protected thus far and not in daily social settings and are being hyper-protected by their parents right now. And it's not all about the kids - what about the teachers, the cafeteria workers, the bus drivers, the office administrators, etc.?

It's silly and contradictory. If schools are open, everything should be open (I obviously don't believe that, but in my mind, that's the message this sends).

 

[bclemms]

Those are not scientific peer-reviewed studies. But what I posted is at least worth discussing and not be dismissed off-hand.

Brandon, you need to lose all your vitriol. It seems to be consuming you and that's not healthy. Open your mind to other ideas. Your way may not be the only way and maybe you need to .open your mind to other opinions. I am worried about you and the anger that seems to be consuming you. Take a deep breath my friend and try to find a calmer space for at least a little while.

Thanks Dan, you are right. I need to step away for a while because it is consuming. It's hard for me to open my mind to other ideas when everything in my business and passion revolves around math and science. I've been dealing with people claiming wildfires are from government run population control programs using high energy microwave beams, that hurricanes are controlled by Governments and it is actually government warfare through weather. That floods occur because corporations are trying to remove people from land so they can buy it cheap. Etc, etc, etc. There is so much of this conspiracy stuff in weather and now the same crowd is pushing into a pandemic and has become so mainstream that our national leaders have started promoting it. In the weather, they literally have no impact other than just being annoyingly crazy. In the pandemic it's having a huge impact on my family, friends and myself.

In my life 2+2=4 because when you have two objects and introduce two more objects there are 4. It's not because the illuminati have brainwashed me into thinking there are two items when it's really 12 and that I think I've added two more but it's really none because God is making an alternative reality where the two doesn't really exist so there is in fact not 4. I just can not wrap my mind around it. I admit, it is wearing on me.

What I need to remember is I can't change any of this and just ignore it all but at the same time, I have to make decisions that can huge impacts on the life of my kids and myself and want to be well informed.

 

[superchuck500]

Well, that was certainly a definitive clinical trial. SMH All of the studies recommending the use HCQ also specify that it must be administered before infection or very shortly thereafter and be accompanied by a zinc supplement.

Lafayette General Hospital, like most hospitals, is concerned by the bottom line.

HCQ cocktail treatment is +/- $100 before or after early-on infection.

Remdesivir is +/- $3,100 per treatment after infection and really has not shown any wonderful results. What would LGH opt for? You tell me.

Remdesivir Priced At More Than $3,100 For A Course Of Treatment

An experimental COVID-19 medicine that has been shown to shorten the time people with severe illness have to stay in the hospital finally has a price tag that's lower than some analysts expected.

www.npr.org

I was in LGH for 7 days back in 2007 for a knee replacement. The total bill was $32,000+. I had to eat over $8,000+ to settle because the cost was over my insurance acceptable limit. The padded charges were ridiculous.

My gastroenterologist set me up for an MRI through LGH which was going to cost $1,300+. I went to an outside facility and it cost $550 and they had state of the art equipment.

LGH's credibility is zero to me.

*****

I found another scientific study promoting the HCQ + zinc + varied antibiotics treatment (HCQ Cocktail) as prophylaxis for COVID. It claims to be only the second peer-reviewed HCQ study and claims to only be an effective prophylaxis (preventative) treatment before infection or treatment very shortly after infection (4-5 days) to get positive results. Here are some excerpts from the study:







This study references the study by Harvey A. Risch I posted earlier in this thread as well as another. The other has an anecdotal letter from a well-credentialed MD from California pleading with Congress to support his work.

The full study in PDF format is attached. It is quite long but the critical parts are in the first 50 pages and about the last 20. It contains the Risch article (the other peer-reviewed study) as well as some other anecdotal discussion.

*****

I also ran across another study (not peer-reviewed) about how India tackled COVID early on.

What Made Asia’s Largest Slum a Success Model for Treating COVID-19?

On July 9, 2020, Asia's biggest and densest slum shocked the world by announcing just one new positive COVID-19 case despite being a cluster and hotspot. Dharavi is no ordinary slum. It is one of the densest in the world, housing mo...

www.americanthinker.com

Some excerpts:





The population density of the Dharavi slum is 6.8 times that of NYC and India handled it better.

India concentrated on the Dharavi slum early on as it was the highest risk area due to the high population density and they feared a high number of deaths.

One of their principal protocols was HCQ and zinc.

*****

The LA Times documented India's success in the Dharavi slum in this article. It is a good summary of what India accomplished, but they conveniently left out the critical part that the HCQ cocktail played in that success. Bias? Possibly.

****

My summary (sorry for being so long-winded): HCQ plus zinc has been summarily dismissed by most. Why? As I have shown above, there are particular circumstances that the HCQ Cocktail can be effective especially as prophylaxis or an early onset benefit. Are these studies foolproof? I don't know. All I know is that as a high-risk subject, COVID scares the sheet out of me and I am at least willing to study concepts outside of the status quo. The status quo has not had very good results.

Just my 2 cents. Bombs away.

EDIT: One last thing. Seven states have decided that physicians cannot prescribe the HCQ Cocktail for treatment for COVID. They are:

New York
Nevada
Ohio (governor has requested that it be reversed)
Idaho
Kentucky
North Carolina
Texas

Three states have recommended physicians not prescribe the HCQ Cocktail for treatment of COVID. They are:

Louisiana
Kansas
Missouri

I don't know about you, but I do not want politicians (damn their souls) to insert their pompous arses between me and my personal physician. Do you?

As far as the pharmacies go, it bears mentioning that HCQ remains unapproved by FDA for Covid treatment. We know, anecdotally, that some people are taking it daily as a preventative - the president claims to be doing that - and in at least two of the state orders on pharmacies regarding HCQ cite concern for widespread use in high quantities of a drug not approved for the purpose it is being prescribed.

I can see how you would say that the pharmacist shouldn’t get in between the doctor and the patient, but I don’t think it’s unprecedented. I also see how one could conclude that it’s political but the fact remains that it is not FDA-approved.

I’m not taking a side on the pharmacy question, I’m just providing what I think is a more detailed context for those rules.

 

[insidejob]

I woke up this morning with a sore throat. I sleep on my back and sometimes sleep with my mouth open all night (I suppose) and wake up with a sore throat that goes away after a few minutes. I've been up for 4 hours and not only do I still have the sore throat and it feels like my glands may be swelling. I'm hoping I'm just paranoid. Fingers crossed I feel better as I drink more coffee and the day goes on.