COVID-19 Outbreak Information Updates (Reboot) [over 150.000,000 US cases (est.), 6,422,520 US hospitilizations, 1,148,691 US deaths.] (10 Viewers)

[Sun Wukong]

So these kids, they're humans, right? They have respiratory systems like adults do, right? Why are we shocked and / or questioning whether or not they can spread this virus like adults??

Because a significant portion of the population lied to themselves that kids were somehow magical beings that wouldn't catch/transmit the virus based on a handful of reports that showed lower incidence level in kids overseas. Despite every single one of those reports coming with the qualifiers of "This isn't an actual longitudinal study, so we can't say anything one way or another really," and "for the most part kids haven't been in their normal social circumstances through much of this, so who knows?" It was literally just a handful of unscientific observations that "the usual crowd" took as holy writ to advocate their rush to open schools. We've now seen outbreaks at multiple daycares and summer camps. Kids catch it. They spread it. Lying to ourselves to the contrary is pointless, although many will continue to do so.

This school thing is so bizarre to me. And it will be an epic failure. At least in Louisiana, more and more districts have delayed their opening at least a couple of weeks. Seems no one is in a rush to be the inevitable first failure in the experiment.

 

[bonnjer]

I'm not sure how anyone else can draw any other conclusion. This is absolute madness.

I don't know. Maybe ask the state legislators and BESE and, while you're at it, ask LHSAA because they're apparently cool with kids slapping on helmets and shoulder pads for football practice (but no contact yet).

 

[insidejob]

This school thing is so bizarre to me. And it will be an epic failure. At least in Louisiana, more and more districts have delayed their opening at least a couple of weeks. Seems no one is in a rush to be the inevitable first failure in the experiment.

With my sister being a teacher at Franklin, I'm at least glad that they've postponed for a couple weeks to see if the spread gets more contained before putting kids' and teachers' lives at risk. At least we're not doing it like Texas.

 

[superchuck500]

Clearly, the problem lies in sending the data to the CDC.

CDC's conclusion from that investigation: "This investigation adds to the body of evidence demonstrating that children of all ages are susceptible to SARS-CoV-2 infection and, contrary to early reports, might play an important role in transmission."


So much of what I have seen about the research on an alleged diminished capability of children to transmit the virus comes from several examples in Europe, early in the outbreak, where an infected student going to school didn't result in other infections. But I don't think any research physician or epidemiologist has even put forth a reasonable, physiological or virological explanation for why children would somehow be unlikely to transmit the virus as other humans do.

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

Just a heads up for anyone who cares. My sore throat did go away a couple of hours ago so I assume it was one of my regular ones. It's just strange that it lasted half of the day and not just the span of minutes it normally does when this happens. I'm going to have to stop sleeping with the AC on such a low temperature with the ceiling fan on high. Pretty sure that's what causes it in the first place.

We all care
Good to hear

 

[insidejob]

I don't know. Maybe ask the state legislators and BESE and, while you're at it, ask LHSAA because they're apparently cool with kids slapping on helmets and shoulder pads for football practice (but no contact yet).

If you actually want to ask the LHSAA, their president or whatever will be on WWL at some point during Sports Talk tonight and you could grill him yourself. 504-260-1870. I'm going to try and catch it to see if he's got any actual answers to the questions he gets.

 

[Sun Wukong]

The thing about the LHSAA is the, at least at first, seemed to dip their toe in the water of doing the responsible thing. But I guess the hue and cry from yokel parents who have no other meaning in their lives besides watching really bad high school football was too loud.

 

[SharonT]

I could give you access to $10,000 but it's buried under a Newark, New Jersey landfill...is it really access?

I had to log in just to give this a thumbs up, even without reading the context.

"Access" is one of those unicorn words thrown around that has nothing to do with reality. Access to a certain doctor/dentist/group does not mean availability.

 

[Infoman]

CDC's conclusion from that investigation: "This investigation adds to the body of evidence demonstrating that children of all ages are susceptible to SARS-CoV-2 infection and, contrary to early reports, might play an important role in transmission."


So much of what I have seen about the research on an alleged diminished capability of children to transmit the virus comes from several examples in Europe, early in the outbreak, where an infected student going to school didn't result in other infections. But I don't think any research physician or epidemiologist has even put forth a reasonable, physiological or virological explanation for why children would somehow be unlikely to transmit the virus as other humans do.

From a couple of weeks ago :

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/schools-reopening-coronavirus/2020/07/10/865fb3e6-c122-11ea-8908-68a2b9eae9e0_story.html

That's not what I have seen and read via many different reputable sources.... Honestly, it's been hit and miss depending on what I read... Some countries never closed... had significant outbreaks in the general population, but not in schools....

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In Finland, when public health researchers combed through test results of children under 16, they found no evidence of school spread and no change in the rate of infection for that age cohort after schools closed in March or reopened in May. In fact, Finland’s infection rate among children was similar to Sweden’s, even though Sweden never closed its schools, according to a report published Tuesday by researchers from the two countries.

In Sweden, researchers also found that staff members at day cares and primary schools were no more likely than people working in other professions to contract the virus.

“It really starts to add up to the fact that the risk of transmission, the number of outbreaks in which the index is a child, is very low, and this seems to be the picture everywhere else,” said Otto Helve, who worked on the report as a pediatric infectious-disease specialist at the Finnish Institute for Health and Welfare.

He said he sent his own children back to school.

Why young children may be less susceptible to the coronavirus or less prone to exhibit symptoms of covid-19, the disease it causes, remains a topic of hot debate among scientists. Theories range from the possibility that children have fewer of the receptors that the virus uses as a gateway into the respiratory system to their having higher overall immunity because of a greater exposure to other types of coronavirus.


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So much conflicting information out there... I can literally find a different reputable source everyday to counter any POV I may have had the day before.

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

From a couple of weeks ago :

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/schools-reopening-coronavirus/2020/07/10/865fb3e6-c122-11ea-8908-68a2b9eae9e0_story.html

That's not what I have seen and read via many different reputable sources.... Honestly, it's been hit and miss depending on what I read... Some countries never closed... had significant outbreaks in the general population, but not in schools....

____________________________________________________________________________


In Finland, when public health researchers combed through test results of children under 16, they found no evidence of school spread and no change in the rate of infection for that age cohort after schools closed in March or reopened in May. In fact, Finland’s infection rate among children was similar to Sweden’s, even though Sweden never closed its schools, according to a report published Tuesday by researchers from the two countries.

In Sweden, researchers also found that staff members at day cares and primary schools were no more likely than people working in other professions to contract the virus.

“It really starts to add up to the fact that the risk of transmission, the number of outbreaks in which the index is a child, is very low, and this seems to be the picture everywhere else,” said Otto Helve, who worked on the report as a pediatric infectious-disease specialist at the Finnish Institute for Health and Welfare.

He said he sent his own children back to school.

Why young children may be less susceptible to the coronavirus or less prone to exhibit symptoms of covid-19, the disease it causes, remains a topic of hot debate among scientists. Theories range from the possibility that children have fewer of the receptors that the virus uses as a gateway into the respiratory system to their having higher overall immunity because of a greater exposure to other types of coronavirus.


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So much conflicting information out there... I can literally find a different reputable source everyday to counter any POV I may have had the day before.

So wouldn’t that be reason to take a more cautious approach?

 

[DaveXA]

I could give you access to $10,000 but it's buried under a Newark, New Jersey landfill...is it really access?

He did say daily access. I don't know how that works, but he did say the CDC is continuing to utilize the reported data. It seems it's just routed differently. While I'm a skeptic, I'm not necessarily thinking something nefarious here.

 

[sfidc3]

That's fine. But everyone constantly touching the mask isn't an issue? Guess i need to just wear the mask and not question it. Keep the illusion of "doing our part" going.

For the life of me, I can't understand folks who believe masks are not effective. It really is insanity....there is a mountain of evidence and science that say otherwise....but "muh freedums".....

Still on this masks don't-really-work-crusade? Here's a suggestion that might help ease your angst.

Now that is a cool mask, Fly by Night indeed!!!!!

 

[superchuck500]

So wouldn’t that be reason to take a more cautious approach?

Not necessarily - when the adverse impacts of not being in school are weighed in the balance, I don't think unclear evidence on schools as vectors of transmission dictates caution. I think its fair to take the position that while some evidence of school transmission exits, there is support for the notion that it hasn't shown to be common. As a result, when cast against the adverse impact of not being in school, the unclear evidence of school-based transmission does not compel accepting that adverse impact.

 

[No2DC]

CDC's conclusion from that investigation: "This investigation adds to the body of evidence demonstrating that children of all ages are susceptible to SARS-CoV-2 infection and, contrary to early reports, might play an important role in transmission."


So much of what I have seen about the research on an alleged diminished capability of children to transmit the virus comes from several examples in Europe, early in the outbreak, where an infected student going to school didn't result in other infections. But I don't think any research physician or epidemiologist has even put forth a reasonable, physiological or virological explanation for why children would somehow be unlikely to transmit the virus as other humans do.

It's almost like the masks thing at the beginning where the CDC said they weren't needed but by June they reversed course claiming they were trying to save them for health care workers. So much of our economy revolves around kids being able to go to school or daycare the current justifications seem economic in nature instead of public health.

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

Not necessarily - when the adverse impacts of not being in school are weighed in the balance, I don't think unclear evidence on schools as vectors of transmission dictates caution. I think its fair to take the position that while some evidence of school transmission exits, there is support for the notion that it hasn't shown to be common. As a result, when cast against the adverse impact of not being in school, the unclear evidence of school-based transmission does not compel accepting that adverse impact.

Well similarly- perhaps even more so- we have more compelling evidence of transmission than we do of the adverse effects of not being in school
— obviously the data is both scant and hella divergent to the point that how you frame the question is going to land you on your answer