COVID-19 Outbreak (Update: 336,327 cases and 9,605 deaths in US) (23 Viewers)

Eeyore

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It shouldn't be a big deal but with a large number of people unable to afford healthcare, and the anti vax crowd growing there's a small chance that this could be interesting.
 
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Doug B

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99 more positives on the Princess Diamond cruise ship, total of 454 from there now. Reportedly 70% of the positives aren't showing any symptoms.
A large, indeterminate number of asymptomatic carriers has been postulated from early on. I am curious how many of these 70% will eventually get any symptoms.

I consider a large number of asymptomatic carriers good news from a few perspectives -- it greatly lowers the percentage of infected suffering severe symptoms, and it also lowers the mortality rate.
 

gboudx

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Can't watch at work -- Cliffs Notes?
Video is from Arirang News which has this in it's "About" on YouTube:

The Arirang NEWS is quickly delivered the news about National/Politics, North Korea, Economy, IT/Science, Foreign Policy, World, Life/Culture of the Korea.

So it's Korean.

The news report there is evidence the COVID-19 virus may have originated from a research facility in Wuhan which is near a seafood market. There's speculation of how the virus leaked out of the facility, but one possibility they cite is deliberating infecting bats, which I then suppose were released, or escaped somehow. And then how they transferred the virus is unknown.
 

Doug B

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The news report there is evidence the COVID-19 virus may have originated from a research facility in Wuhan which is near a seafood market. There's speculation of how the virus leaked out of the facility, but one possibility they cite is deliberating infecting bats, which I then suppose were released, or escaped somehow. And then how they transferred the virus is unknown.
Thanks for the recap.

I saw a report last week that some expert or another ruled out a man-made origin of the virus. Almost certainly not yet peer-reviewed or replicated ... but yeah, at best, info is conflicting.

I will look for a link to the "not man-made" article.
 

bclemms

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Thanks for the recap.

I saw a report last week that some expert or another ruled out a man-made origin of the virus. Almost certainly not yet peer-reviewed or replicated ... but yeah, at best, info is conflicting.

I will look for a link to the "not man-made" article.
I don't think it comes from a biolab but completely discounting the idea given the proximity of the lab to the outbreak seems just as absurd to me as thinking it couldn't have happened.

It reminds me a lot of the plane that crashed in Iran an hour after Iran hit the US base with missiles. The odds of a plane crashing in that area at that time were so incredibly small it seemed obvious to me that it was a missile strike despite early reports of the contrary.

Difference between that plane crash and the virus is that lab was set up in China to study coronavirus because it was at such great odds for a novel strain to jump over to humans in that area. Still, China covers 3.7 million square miles, for the virus to originate a few miles from the lab makes for plenty of reason to speculate.
 

Doug B

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I will look for a link to the "not man-made" article.
(Here we go ... spoiler-boxed for length. This isn't the same thing I read, but it gives the same info.)

Tom Cotton keeps repeating a coronavirus conspiracy theory that was already debunked (Washington Post, paywall :( )

By Paulina Firozi
Feb. 16, 2020 at 4:27 p.m. CST

Sen. Tom Cotton (R-Ark.) repeated a fringe theory suggesting that the ongoing spread of a coronavirus is connected to research in the disease-ravaged epicenter of Wuhan, China.
Cotton referenced a laboratory in the city, the Wuhan National Biosafety Laboratory, in an interview on Fox News’s “Sunday Morning Futures.” He said the lab was near a market some scientists initially thought was a starting point for the virus’s spread.

“We don’t know where it originated, and we have to get to the bottom of that,” Cotton said. “We also know that just a few miles away from that food market is China’s only biosafety level 4 super laboratory that researches human infectious diseases.”

Yet Cotton acknowledged there is no evidence that the disease originated at the lab. Instead, he suggested it’s necessary to ask Chinese authorities about the possibility, fanning the embers of a conspiracy theory that has been repeatedly debunked by experts.

“Now, we don’t have evidence that this disease originated there, but because of China’s duplicity and dishonesty from the beginning, we need to at least ask the question to see what the evidence says,” Cotton said. “And China right now is not giving any evidence on that question at all.”

Cotton is referring to a well-known lab in Wuhan, a “Cellular Level Biosafety Level 4” facility with a high level of operational security that works on researching dangerous pathogens.

In response to Cotton’s remarks, as well as in previous interviews with The Washington Post, numerous experts dismissed the possibility the coronavirus may be man-made.

“There’s absolutely nothing in the genome sequence of this virus that indicates the virus was engineered,” said Richard Ebright, a professor of chemical biology at Rutgers University. “The possibility this was a deliberately released bioweapon can be firmly excluded.”

Vipin Narang, an associate professor at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, said it is “highly unlikely” the general population was exposed to a virus through an accident at a lab.

“We don’t have any evidence for that,” said Narang, a political science professor with a background in chemical engineering.

“It’s a skip in logic to say it’s a bioweapon that the Chinese developed and intentionally deployed, or even unintentionally deployed,” Narang said.

The British publication the Daily Mail was one of the first to suggest a connection between the coronavirus and the laboratory in Wuhan. Later, the Washington Times ran a story under the headline, “Coronavirus may have originated in lab linked to China’s biowarfare program.”

Cotton’s Sunday remarks were not the first time he has suggested the virus may have originated in the Wuhan lab. Chinese Ambassador to the United States Cui Tiankai pushed back on such suggestions in an interview with CBS’s “Face the Nation” earlier this month.

“It’s true that a lot is still unknown,” Cui said when CBS host Margaret Brennan asked about Cotton’s claims. “But it’s very harmful, it’s very dangerous, to stir up suspicion, rumors and spread them among the people. For one thing, this will create panic. Another thing is that it will fan up racial discrimination, xenophobia, all these things that will really harm our joint efforts to combat the virus.”

Cotton responded to the ambassador in a pair of tweets following the interview, referencing the Wuhan lab. “Where did it start? We don’t know. But burden of proof is on you & fellow communists,” he wrote.

After Cotton’s most recent remarks, Narang said, “These kinds of conspiracy theories are unhelpful.”

“I don’t think it’s particularly helpful, and it’s borderline irresponsible to — and it’s without evidence, so at this point it’s a conspiracy theory — peddle it,” he said. “Cotton should spend more time funding the agencies in the United States that can help contain and combat the virus rather than trying to assign blame.”
 
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When they say people are asymptomatic, does that mean expression of overt symptoms only, like they're not coughing or have a fever or does it also include "hidden" damage to the heart or lungs? I guess what I'm asking is can you not even know you have this while it's eating away at your heart?
 

Doug B

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I don't think it comes from a biolab but completely discounting the idea given the proximity of the lab to the outbreak seems just as absurd to me as thinking it couldn't have happened.
To me ... every bit of sensational "bad news" that has come out about this coronavirus has not held up to any kind of skeptical inspection. Not once that I can recall.

Concerning the speculation about a man-made origin ... I have noticed with interest that the Washington Post is the one and only traditional media outlet to even write about it at all to date. Reuters, CNN, AP, ABC News, BBC, CNBC, The New York Times, etc. ... all have nada. FWIW, the Washington Post cites the UK's Daily Mail tabloid and the Washington Times as early reporters of the "man made" theory.
 

bclemms

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(Here we go ... spoiler-boxed for length. This isn't the same thing I read, but it gives the same info.)

Tom Cotton keeps repeating a coronavirus conspiracy theory that was already debunked (Washington Post, paywall :( )

By Paulina Firozi
Feb. 16, 2020 at 4:27 p.m. CST

Sen. Tom Cotton (R-Ark.) repeated a fringe theory suggesting that the ongoing spread of a coronavirus is connected to research in the disease-ravaged epicenter of Wuhan, China.
Cotton referenced a laboratory in the city, the Wuhan National Biosafety Laboratory, in an interview on Fox News’s “Sunday Morning Futures.” He said the lab was near a market some scientists initially thought was a starting point for the virus’s spread.

“We don’t know where it originated, and we have to get to the bottom of that,” Cotton said. “We also know that just a few miles away from that food market is China’s only biosafety level 4 super laboratory that researches human infectious diseases.”

Yet Cotton acknowledged there is no evidence that the disease originated at the lab. Instead, he suggested it’s necessary to ask Chinese authorities about the possibility, fanning the embers of a conspiracy theory that has been repeatedly debunked by experts.

“Now, we don’t have evidence that this disease originated there, but because of China’s duplicity and dishonesty from the beginning, we need to at least ask the question to see what the evidence says,” Cotton said. “And China right now is not giving any evidence on that question at all.”

Cotton is referring to a well-known lab in Wuhan, a “Cellular Level Biosafety Level 4” facility with a high level of operational security that works on researching dangerous pathogens.

In response to Cotton’s remarks, as well as in previous interviews with The Washington Post, numerous experts dismissed the possibility the coronavirus may be man-made.

“There’s absolutely nothing in the genome sequence of this virus that indicates the virus was engineered,” said Richard Ebright, a professor of chemical biology at Rutgers University. “The possibility this was a deliberately released bioweapon can be firmly excluded.”

Vipin Narang, an associate professor at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, said it is “highly unlikely” the general population was exposed to a virus through an accident at a lab.

“We don’t have any evidence for that,” said Narang, a political science professor with a background in chemical engineering.


“It’s a skip in logic to say it’s a bioweapon that the Chinese developed and intentionally deployed, or even unintentionally deployed,” Narang said.

The British publication the Daily Mail was one of the first to suggest a connection between the coronavirus and the laboratory in Wuhan. Later, the Washington Times ran a story under the headline, “Coronavirus may have originated in lab linked to China’s biowarfare program.”

Cotton’s Sunday remarks were not the first time he has suggested the virus may have originated in the Wuhan lab. Chinese Ambassador to the United States Cui Tiankai pushed back on such suggestions in an interview with CBS’s “Face the Nation” earlier this month.

“It’s true that a lot is still unknown,” Cui said when CBS host Margaret Brennan asked about Cotton’s claims. “But it’s very harmful, it’s very dangerous, to stir up suspicion, rumors and spread them among the people. For one thing, this will create panic. Another thing is that it will fan up racial discrimination, xenophobia, all these things that will really harm our joint efforts to combat the virus.”

Cotton responded to the ambassador in a pair of tweets following the interview, referencing the Wuhan lab. “Where did it start? We don’t know. But burden of proof is on you & fellow communists,” he wrote.

After Cotton’s most recent remarks, Narang said, “These kinds of conspiracy theories are unhelpful.”

“I don’t think it’s particularly helpful, and it’s borderline irresponsible to — and it’s without evidence, so at this point it’s a conspiracy theory — peddle it,” he said. “Cotton should spend more time funding the agencies in the United States that can help contain and combat the virus rather than trying to assign blame.”
Numerous experts dismissed it but numerous experts have also said it's quite possible. It's unproven that it came from the lab just like it's unproven it came from the market. Personally, I think the US should certainly be looking at the possibility but not publicly.
 
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Eeyore

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When they say people are asymptomatic, does that mean expression of overt symptoms only, like they're not coughing or have a fever or does it also include "hidden" damage to the heart or lungs? I guess what I'm asking is can you not even know you have this while it's eating away at your heart?
I was thinking scarred kidneys and lungs but, you're right, the heart too.
 

Doug B

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Eeyore

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To me ... every bit of sensational "bad news" that has come out about this coronavirus has not held up to any kind of skeptical inspection. Not once that I can recall.

Concerning the speculation about a man-made origin ... I have noticed with interest that the Washington Post is the one and only traditional media outlet to even write about it at all to date. Reuters, CNN, AP, ABC News, BBC, CNBC, The New York Times, etc. ... all have nada. FWIW, the Washington Post cites the UK's Daily Mail tabloid and the Washington Times as early reporters of the "man made" theory.
Even if the truth is known/discovered, it'll never be public knowledge. It's too damaging.
 

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