COVID-19 Outbreak (Update: More than 2.9M cases and 132,313 deaths in US) (15 Viewers)

[Dago]

Speaking as a fairly conservative individual, I don't much care for laws restricting much of personal and social freedom. My conservatism is fairly unique though. I'd probably get labeled a liberal by a lot of people, lol.

These days isnt that closer to libertarian? I know the lines are blurres and confused, but it seems to me that libertarians are closer to what the republican party claims to be than the republican parry itself.

Apologies for the political post

 

[Dago]

Are we going to need a separate thread for posting the articles about the anti-mask attacks?

Police: Man assaults Mishawaka 7-Eleven clerk for asking him to wear mask

Mishawaka police say they are searching for a man accused of assaulting a 7-Eleven clerk who told him he needed to wear a mask in the store. This happened at the 7-Eleven at 601 N. Main Street this morning around 9 a. m. According to a release from police: "A male subject entered the 7-11...

wsbt.com

Really wish state and local governments would just make it a requirement...might prevent this crap

 

[dtc]

I mean, I'm not disagreeing with you.

I'm just saying I don't think decency laws should stand, but they are on much less solid ground than laws directed at protecting public health.

And I'm going to do something that is against my nature. I'm going to admit I don't know something. What is a "first principles argument"?

The POTUS is using language and terms describing us as warriors and the CV crisis as a war. In the constitution as I recall are clearly enumerated powers to provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States. The passage is of such significance that not only do I remember it, but it's in the 1st Article.

The government seems to clearly have the power to set speed limits, enforce drinking ages, restrict the use of cell phones while driving and even to xray us in order to get on a domestic flight. The notion that temporary measures to protect society from a global pandemic such as requiring masks is some sort of abridgement of our freedoms is patently absurd. And it comes from a special type of person who cares not a wit for the hypocrisy they're supporting.

 

[St. Widge]

The POTUS is using language and terms describing us as warriors and the CV crisis as a war. In the constitution as I recall are clearly enumerated powers to provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States. The passage is of such significance that not only do I remember it, but it's in the 1st Article.

The government seems to clearly have the power to set speed limits, enforce drinking ages, restrict the use of cell phones while driving and even to xray us in order to get on a domestic flight. The notion that temporary measures to protect society from a global pandemic such as requiring masks is some sort of abridgement of our freedoms is patently absurd. And it comes from a special type of person who cares not a wit for the hypocrisy they're supporting.

Oh, it's the Preamble to the Constitution. Just never heard it called "first principles" before.

Here it is:

"WE THE PEOPLE of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America. "

I mean sure, it basically established that the Constitution is a Social Contract like was discussed by John Locke and Jean Jacques Rousseau. (Hobbes too, but for a bit different reasons.) It's why it starts with "We the people." It shows that the people have joined together to enter this contract.

Anyway social contract theory (mostly Locke) is the basis for the Constitution. We give up the right to do whatever we want, license, in exchange for safety and protection. I think that encompasses laws for the public good, especially during a pandemic. It's why the Constitution gives the power that the government has. Because all other powers reside with the individuals (or states). In fact, many founders didn't want the Bill of Rights because they felt it was redundant and it was clear we had all those rights since there were not restricted in the Constitution itself. Luckily those who wanted the Bill of Rights won because I doubt we would still have most of them if they were not spelled out.

 

[Goatman Saint]

yes, because as you keep reading after we the people, it also clearly states that one of the powers of the federal government is to promote the general welfare. The annoying thing that this has shown is the whole liberty/freedom crowd doesn’t get to responsibility and accountability part of being a member of society.

 

[James Spader]

Speaking as a fairly conservative individual, I don't much care for laws restricting much of personal and social freedom. My conservatism is fairly unique though. I'd probably get labeled a liberal by a lot of people, lol.

They used to call it classical liberalism. I am sure we have much in common. I have similar thoughts.

 

[bonnjer]

I thought there was a meat shortage? From my understanding of basic economics, when supply is decreasing and demand is staying the same / increasing, prices don't usually get cut. So, what gives here? Couple this news with the fact that I haven't seen much in the way of meat shortages in my area and it makes me start to wonder things.

As coronavirus rattles industry, Tyson Foods may slash beef prices 20-30%

Tyson Foods Inc. is cutting prices on some beef products for retailers even as the coronavirus pandemic has temporarily shuttered some meat processing plants and threatened to disrupt supply chains.

www.foxbusiness.com

 

[itztime]

So what about the homeless, havent been hearing too much concerning the infection rates with them, maybe a blurb or two. According to this articles two cities were chosen by Quest and out of nearly 700 hundred in Jacksonville all tested negative. The total number for Phoenix was not given in the article.

Hundreds of homeless people tested for COVID-19 in Jacksonville, all are negative

Jacksonville is one of two cities in the US where all homeless people were tested for coronavirus. Of the nearly 700 tested here, all of the results were negatives.

www.13newsnow.com

 

[StudioSaint]

So what about the homeless, havent been hearing too much concerning the infection rates with them, maybe a blurb or two. According to this articles two cities were chosen by Quest and out of nearly 700 hundred in Jacksonville all tested negative. The total number for Phoenix was not given in the article.

Hundreds of homeless people tested for COVID-19 in Jacksonville, all are negative

Jacksonville is one of two cities in the US where all homeless people were tested for coronavirus. Of the nearly 700 tested here, all of the results were negatives.

www.13newsnow.com

The city of LA has been trying to help get them housing and medical care. In my neighborhood, there were a lot of people living rough and several small makeshift shelter encampments. I haven't seen any of them for the past 6 weeks. I'm hoping that means they are being cared for.

I fear a lot of them got sick or worse.

 

[superchuck500]

So here's the kind of insanity that has gripped much of America right now. As a preface, I'm not going to pretend to know what the right policy answers are in this situation - there are clearly competing interests and priorities. I'm not going to argue with people over views of personal liberties versus common safety. But I will point out where I think someone is making a premise or relying on data that is objectively inaccurate. Numbers are numbers, methods are methods . . . these things, I think are much closer to being objective truths and not subjective interpretations. In other words, I don't care what people ultimately choose, but if they're basing their view on an inaccuracy, that bears pointing out. I don't ever suggest a course of action, only point out the flaw in the piece of information (and provide citation to why it is inaccurate).

What's really frustrating is how some people react to it. Example: yesterday a Facebook friend posted a screenshot purportedly from some surgeon (actual name or hospital affiliation not included in the screen shot) that said that the size of the coronavirus is between .006 and .14 microns . . . which is far smaller than can be filtered out by most medical grade masks, and certainly not standard N-95s (>.3 microns) or earloop masks . . . and cloth face coverings are worthless.

So I replied, "Actual medical research has found the size of the aerosolized particles (the virus gets in the air by attaching to respiratory droplets) to be between .25 microns and 2.5 microns. " And I posted the medical paper i was referring to (but there are others with similar findings). That was it - that was the post . . . I made no effort beyond that.

The response? Bwaaaahaaaa!! That paper you posted is from Wuhan! Come on man.

Nevermind that it's a proper medical research paper that has been published and has also since been cited in the work of western (and US) researchers. Nevermind that the team of authors are all research physicians with extensive publication in their bios. It's from Wuhan and is therefore instantly dismissible. The same people who are now acting like the critical-review dissertation panel were, moments ago, entirely carefree about accepting the claims in an unattributed Facebook post screenshot.

That sheet is maddening.

 

[RazorOye]

It's almost like the for profit places are putting profits over people.

For-profit nursing homes have four times as many COVID-19 deaths as city-run homes, Star analysis finds

In homes with an outbreak, residents in for-profit facilities are about twice as likely to catch COVID-19 and die than residents in non-profits, and about four times as likely to become infected and die from the virus as those in a municipal home.

www.thestar.com

see also: prisons

 

[AARPSaint]

The phrase "promote the general welfare" stands out to me. Unless you understand that phrase to mean "culling of the herd," that phrase would include the notion of protecting the people from serious illness and death. Of course, if you believe that science is bull**** and this whole debacle is not actually happening somehow, then by all means, spread your possibly asymptomatic, infected droplets as you wish.

While you're at it, ignore traffic signs. Drive the opposite way on a one way street. That one way sign impairs your freedom. If you feel like it, stop wearing your seat belt so that when you get rear ended and go through your windshield, you can take up hospital space instead of someone who needs the space through no fault of her/his own. Seat belts constrict your freedom after all. Walk down a public street nude. Being forced to wear clothing seriously violates your right to absolute freedom to do as you wish.

This whole rebellion against wearing a mask is beyond absurd. Freedom doesn't mean freedom from social responsibility. And it's such an unbelievably trivial "restriction."

 

[RazorOye]

So what about the homeless, havent been hearing too much concerning the infection rates with them, maybe a blurb or two. According to this articles two cities were chosen by Quest and out of nearly 700 hundred in Jacksonville all tested negative. The total number for Phoenix was not given in the article.

Hundreds of homeless people tested for COVID-19 in Jacksonville, all are negative

Jacksonville is one of two cities in the US where all homeless people were tested for coronavirus. Of the nearly 700 tested here, all of the results were negatives.

www.13newsnow.com

part of the reason is because the term "homeless" isn't really useful. For about 20 years now - actually closer to 30 - the conception of 'homelessness' has evolved beyond some substance-addled man under an overpass, sleeping on cardboard. People and families living in vehicles, or with friends or relatives or moving from shelters or on the streets in places that aren't accessed, pockets of relative quiet and anonymity.

So, methodologically - when it comes to science and writing articles - the term 'homeless' isn't nearly as monolithic as it is in, say, the newspaper or broadcast world or in the minds of most people as they tend to think of the homeless in one way.

The reality is that the *actual* homeless that resembles *that* type of homelessness has becoming increasingly a smaller slice of the 'homeless' pie

 

[dtc]

I thought there was a meat shortage? From my understanding of basic economics, when supply is decreasing and demand is staying the same / increasing, prices don't usually get cut. So, what gives here? Couple this news with the fact that I haven't seen much in the way of meat shortages in my area and it makes me start to wonder things.

As coronavirus rattles industry, Tyson Foods may slash beef prices 20-30%

Tyson Foods Inc. is cutting prices on some beef products for retailers even as the coronavirus pandemic has temporarily shuttered some meat processing plants and threatened to disrupt supply chains.

www.foxbusiness.com

There is a huge backlog of cattle ready for slaughter and the resolution for safety at these plants seems like it ought to be quite simple if not also quite expensive. Seems like rather than let the cattle rot they're going to attempt to move it out. And, cash flow may be as necessary during this crisis as profit or moreso.

 

[efil4stnias]

So here's the kind of insanity that has gripped much of America right now. As a preface, I'm not going to pretend to know what the right policy answers are in this situation - there are clearly competing interests and priorities. I'm not going to argue with people over views of personal liberties versus common safety. But I will point out where I think someone is making a premise or relying on data that is objectively inaccurate. Numbers are numbers, methods are methods . . . these things, I think are much closer to being objective truths and not subjective interpretations. In other words, I don't care what people ultimately choose, but if they're basing their view on an inaccuracy, that bears pointing out. I don't ever suggest a course of action, only point out the flaw in the piece of information (and provide citation to why it is inaccurate).

What's really frustrating is how some people react to it. Example: yesterday a Facebook friend posted a screenshot purportedly from some surgeon (actual name or hospital affiliation not included in the screen shot) that said that the size of the coronavirus is between .006 and .14 microns . . . which is far smaller than can be filtered out by most medical grade masks, and certainly not standard N-95s (>.3 microns) or earloop masks . . . and cloth face coverings are worthless.

So I replied, "Actual medical research has found the size of the aerosolized particles (the virus gets in the air by attaching to respiratory droplets) to be between .25 microns and 2.5 microns). " And I posted the medical paper i was referring to (but there are others with similar findings). That was it - that was the post . . . I made no effort beyond that.

The response? Bwaaaahaaaa!! That paper you posted is from Wuhan! Come on man.

Nevermind that it's a proper medical research paper that has been published and has also since been cited in the work of western (and US) researchers. Nevermind that the team of authors are all research physicians with extensive publication in their bios. It's from Wuhan and is therefore instantly dismissible. The same people who are now acting like the critical-review dissertation panel were, moments ago, entirely carefree about accepting the claims in an unattributed Facebook post screenshot.

That sheet is maddening.

and just like that, it was discounted as fake.

Its why i have all but stopped responding to folks like that ( im not on FB but the wife will bring me posts every now and again to read and possibly reply to ). There is no reasoning. There is no debating and there certainly is no open-mindedness.

Its herd mentality/tribal mentality at its core.

And these are relatively intelligent folks that have latched on to some idea, get the likes/thumbs up/replies and makes them feel important.

I wont even get into the FB post from 5/11 about the "towers going up on NS to TRACK PEOPLE" ( 5g towers mind you ) as this woman posted from her iPhone.