COVID-19 Outbreak (Update: More than 1.8M cases and 106,195 deaths in US) (113 Viewers)

Eeyore

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It shouldn't be a big deal but with a large number of people unable to afford healthcare, and the anti vax crowd growing there's a small chance that this could be interesting.
 
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St. Widge

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i'm curious about this
what can you not get watching from home than you need to be in a church for?
- legit question, i'm trying to figure it out with school work as well
Brennan could certainly answer this better than me since I long ago gave up Catholicism and all other religions, but my recollection is that the Church is the literal House of God. It is where he is present. But, beyond that, the sacrament of Communion is crucial because to Catholics it is the literal body and blood of Christ and performing the sacrament is required by the New Covenant that Christ makes in the New Testament. You can't do that remotely.
 

Loose Cannon

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Maybe I'm just misunderstanding your ask. And maybe it's that you are talking about specific information and I'm looking at the more general amount of knowledge we have. I agree that there are specific issues that need to be looked at more and that yours is one of them.

And, I'm not aware of stuff out there saying that kids aren't vectors for the virus so you have more information than I do. And, I admittedly haven't researched the issue. If it turns out to be true, that would be big and good news since it would allow kids to go back to school and day cares which would allow parents to work. I have to say it sounds really dubious to me, but I haven't read any of the articles so I could be totally missing something or just totally wrong.

Anyway, I'm not saying it will never be perfect so screw it. I'm just saying that it takes time to get correct answers so some patience is necessary. But, yes, if the government invested more resources and showed more leadership and urgency, we probably would be further along in our knowledge and less patience would be necessary.

Anyway, I don't want to belabor the point anymore than I already have and I think we fundamentally agree on the issues with the handling of this anyway. I'm just an arse that nitpicks stuff.
Fair enough - yeah, I mean obviously perfect data would be great. But I know that's probably five years away.

My ask is simple. For example for the day care question, I'd be happy with some studies of "parents with kids in day care catch it at X% higher/lower than those without" (adjusted for demographics and geography), and a legitimate version of the Icelandic study on viral load by age, but done on 100x the scale of the Icelandic study (because theirs has serious sample size issues and is mostly worthless because of it). They did it. We can do it too, but better.

Similar for the rest of the bulleted questions I put forth in the initial post.

Our citizens shouldn't have to go dig through research papers from freaking Iceland and decipher a bunch of technical jargon (that paper was difficult for me and I do the **** for a living) to get a basic assessment of the risk level of decisions for their family.
 

St. Widge

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Fair enough - yeah, I mean obviously perfect data would be great. But I know that's probably five years away.

My ask is simple. For example for the day care question, I'd be happy with some studies of "parents with kids in day care catch it at X% higher/lower than those without" (adjusted for demographics and geography), and a legitimate version of the Icelandic study on viral load by age, but done on 100x the scale of the Icelandic study (because theirs has serious sample size issues and is mostly worthless because of it). They did it. We can do it too, but better.

Similar for the rest of the bulleted questions I put forth in the initial post.

Our citizens shouldn't have to go dig through research papers from freaking Iceland and decipher a bunch of technical jargon (that paper was difficult for me and I do the **** for a living) to get a basic assessment of the risk level of decisions for their family.
I see where you are coming from now and I don't disagree. Sometimes my contrarian nature just comes out.
 

N.O.Bronco

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This needs to never be forgotten as we work toward a vaccine.

The model of America up to this point with pharmaceutical drugs(and a lot of government funding) is textbook Lemon socialism. America puts our tax money on the hook for much of the foundational and early research and development, all the testing and trials. Then the private market carries the drug across the finish line and all the profits are realized entirely by the private sector.

The private sector leverages their exclusivity to mark up the price, consumers pay even more out of pocket, then once the end of their patent approaches they use all sorts of corrupted laws to extend their exclusivity rights so they can keep gouging consumers.

And not to be even more of a Debbie Downer, but, its worth keeping in mind:




Everyone has to start somewhere, and venture capital is pretty much built on the idea of investing in ten ideas and hopefully hitting on one, and their work with MERS and the NIH gives me some hope, but I am not going to let myself be more than incredibly cautiously optimistic until we get through stage 2 and see some promise in phase 3.

Sometimes it actually doesn’t feel all that good to be right about your skepticism....


Looks like it in fact was all a pump and dump scheme.
 

Oye

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Ontario hasn't had a good few days, after a stretch of pretty good ones.

 

bonnjer

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I would say mask wearers were up to about 85% at Rouse's today, and Whole Foods was pretty close to 100.
I really think it's a slow growth everywhere. At first, people were probably thinking "ohh, that's weird, I'm not doing that" and now that they see more and more people, they feel like they should follow along. When mask wearing was first mentioned and we compared it to Asian countries, I remember thinking, "Yeah, good luck getting that to catch on here." I remember the first time I wore one out in public and feeling out of place. Now, I don't even think twice about it.
 

DaveXA

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Sometimes it actually doesn’t feel all that good to be right about your skepticism....


Looks like it in fact was all a pump and dump scheme.
If this was indeed a pump and dump scheme, the SEC shouldn't be too far behind. Insider trading is illegal and execs holding shares actually are supposed to follow rules related to buying and selling company stock. At least that's how it was back when I was working for an advisory financial services firm.

Edit: So, I actually went and read the article, and these were automatically triggered trades and not necessarily anything nefarious. The timing was interesting, but other already scheduled trades executed prior to the pop, so it's likely the execs who made a big profit got really lucky with the timing. This doesn't necessarily take away from the validity of the phase 1 trials. That still seems legitimate and certainly if phase 2 goes well, the company should do really well from that point.
 
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guidomerkinsrules

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Brennan could certainly answer this better than me since I long ago gave up Catholicism and all other religions, but my recollection is that the Church is the literal House of God. It is where he is present. But, beyond that, the sacrament of Communion is crucial because to Catholics it is the literal body and blood of Christ and performing the sacrament is required by the New Covenant that Christ makes in the New Testament. You can't do that remotely.
I graduated from Catholic also
Someone earlier said the bishops gave dispensation from the sacraments
Jesus said ‘wherever two or more are gathered in my name, there I am’ he did not specify if that had to be IRL
 

DaveXA

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I graduated from Catholic also
Someone earlier said the bishops gave dispensation from the sacraments
Jesus said ‘wherever two or more are gathered in my name, there I am’ he did not specify if that had to be IRL
Sure, he didn't exactly spell it out in so many words, but at that time, there obviously was no concept of virtual gatherings. I'm not necessarily convinced he meant anything other than physical gatherings.

Just a thought.
 

St. Widge

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I graduated from Catholic also
Someone earlier said the bishops gave dispensation from the sacraments
Jesus said ‘wherever two or more are gathered in my name, there I am’ he did not specify if that had to be IRL
I mean, I'm the last one that probably should argue this, and I get the concept that god is everywhere, but from what I understand, part of what makes Catholicism different is the idea that God is specifically present in a Church. That is not so much the case for many Protestant religions (it may be for some and is for Greek Orthodox) where you have more of a personal relationship with god. For Catholics, the relationship with God is through the structure, both spiritual and physical of the Church. Beyond that, the sacrament of Communion is key to the entire religion and without it, Catholics tend to feel "incomplete". Certainly incomplete in terms of their worship ritual. And, ritual is really the key in Catholicism in the very Joseph Campbell sense.

As far as the dispensation from the Bishop, just because they don't have to do it, doesn't mean that they don't feel incomplete without it and/or feel guilty for not doing it. For instance, the sick and elderly don't have to abstain from meat during lent based on special dispensation, but many do because they feel they need to to fully feel part of their religion.
 

guidomerkinsrules

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Sure, he didn't exactly spell it out in so many words, but at that time, there obviously was no concept of virtual gatherings. I'm not necessarily convinced he meant anything other than physical gatherings.

Just a thought.
I would think an easy case could be made that spiritual gatherings are virtual gatherings
Semantically and otherwise
 

DaveXA

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I would think an easy case could be made that spiritual gatherings are virtual gatherings
Semantically and otherwise
Well, you have your semantics and I have mine. :hihi:

And fwiw, there certainly are times where you can have spiritual experiences through watching a service on TV. But I don't think it's truly communal in the complete sense. I mean, I think we can do OK for a time, but for months on end, it's a legitimate challenge to nurture the personal relationships we've built through close interaction. I know you're not saying it's an equivalent substitute.

It's similar to the sense of loss we feel when we can't be close to a loved one when they're sick. I feel that same sense of loss when I am disconnected from friends for long periods of time.
 

Loose Cannon

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Well, you have your semantics and I have mine. :hihi:

And fwiw, there certainly are times where you can have spiritual experiences through watching a service on TV. But I don't think it's truly communal in the complete sense. I mean, I think we can do OK for a time, but for months on end, it's a legitimate challenge to nurture the personal relationships we've built through close interaction. I know you're not saying it's an equivalent substitute.

It's similar to the sense of loss we feel when we can't be close to a loved one when they're sick. I feel that same sense of loss when I am disconnected from friends for long periods of time.
Anecdotally the people I know rushing back to church need the social/camaraderie aspect. I totally get it. Everyone has the thing that centers them. Mine is the outdoors and I'm going camping with friends tomorrow (being safe, no group food/drink, distancing etc.). If you're going to take a risk, use that card for something that your soul needs (no pun intended). I get it.

Man, that's a big risk though. Church has to be near the top of risky things to do.
 

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