COVID-19 Outbreak (Update: More than 2.9M cases and 132,313 deaths in US) (4 Viewers)

[superchuck500]

I'm pretty sure there's no evidence of cross-species viral infection from fish to people.

 

[St. Widge]

I'm pretty sure there's no evidence of cross-species viral infection from fish to people.

True, but the point is that wet markets not all that different from the ones in China are all over the world and are just as likely to result in the same thing happening. If the Chinese were guilty of being negligent in allowing them so is most of the rest of the world.

 

[superchuck500]

True, but the point is that wet markets not all that different from the ones in China are all over the world and are just as likely to result in the same thing happening. If the Chinese were guilty of being negligent in allowing them so is most of the rest of the world.

Yeah, agree. It might be something that the viral science can show is just too dangerous at this point (the numbers and the proximity are getting too high) and there can be pressure to end it.

But you can't say it's a source of fault for this outbreak - like you said, they're common around the world. The better focus is on China's initial response in the first few weeks (in December). Governments should be held accountable for failing to alert the world community about a new virus. We have avenues for it, alert the public-health agencies just as a good world citizen - and let the science steer the response. The early period is so critical, there has to be disclosure requirements.

What if the next one is in an African country fraught with corruption and factionalism - and it's a much worse virus? What if the next one is in China? We need a new global accord on emerging disease that focuses on early sharing of information. The WHO was supposed to be that structure but it's clearly broken.

 

[PurpleBlack&Gold]

True, but the point is that wet markets not all that different from the ones in China are all over the world and are just as likely to result in the same thing happening. If the Chinese were guilty of being negligent in allowing them so is most of the rest of the world.

Except that most of the rest of the world doesn't have a history of coronavirus outbreaks originating from their markets. The fact that China shut them down after the SARS outbreak should tell you something. Eventually they just let them reopen. Maybe they shouldn't have.

 

[Goatman Saint]

The WHO can’t function when a country like China is blocking access. You have to remember, China does what China wants. If they don’t want someone to know something, they won’t. They didn’t own up to this mess quickly, fought against letting the world know how bad it was and is continuing to lie about it now. The WHO is only ss good as the information it receives.

 

[rob22278]

True, but the point is that wet markets not all that different from the ones in China are all over the world and are just as likely to result in the same thing happening. If the Chinese were guilty of being negligent in allowing them so is most of the rest of the world.

So what is your point? Any wet market that poses a public health hazard due to cross species viral infection needs to be shut down, whether it’s in China, CA, NY, or any country in the world.

Should the number one goal not be to minimize the risk of this happening again?

 

[rob22278]

You have to remember, China does what China wants. If they don’t want someone to know something, they won’t. They didn’t own up to this mess quickly, fought against letting the world know how bad it was and is continuing to lie about it now. The WHO is only ss good as the information it receives.

The WHO can’t function when a country like China is telling them how to operate and to exclude vital information about the virus from the rest of the world.

Taiwan Accuses WHO of Failing to Heed Warning of Coronavirus Human-to-Human Transmission

Taiwanese health officials have accused the World Health Organization of failing to communicate the country's warning in December regarding possible human-to-human transmission of the Wuhan coronavirus, the Financial Times reported Friday.The officials said doctors in Taiwan had learned from their

news.yahoo.com

The officials said doctors in Taiwan had learned from their colleagues in mainland China that medical staff were falling ill from the as-yet unnamed coronavirus, a sign of human-to-human transmission that Taiwan says it passed on to the WHO and Chinese authorities on December 31. However, the WHO did not communicate the information with other nations.

China forbids international organizations of which it is a member, such as the WHO, from recognizing Taiwan as a member in its own right. Chinese health authorities confirmed human-t0-human transmission of the coronavirus on January 20

 

[Saint_Ward]

I have a Google news alert set for "SARS" - it's many years old, I set it a few years after SARS (2003-2005) because I had become really interested it. It started pinging in 2012 when MERS first jumped to humans. https://saintsreport.com/threads/mers-new-sars-like-virus-spreading-and-killing.287524/

After MERS was contained, I didn't get many Google news emails about it, so I never turned it off. Every now and then a new study would come out and it would ping for a week or so, but it wasn't often. That was about from 2014 to the end of last year.

It started pinging on this virus on December 31. That was when China formally reported to the WHO a novel coronavirus infection in Wuhan. It was daily news after that and by mid-January, the Chinese outbreak had infected people abroad. The mainstream media was dropping stories about it from time to time in the first half of January, but medical and science media was on it more intensely. The virus's genome analysis was first posted for study on open-source virology sites in early January.

News and academia were on it by the first of the year, and I think there are US intelligence reports of noting activity in Wuhan relating to a viral outbreak several weeks earlier. The first travel restrictions went up in the third week of January.

There's an objective record here, and it shows just how much information was available in January, in February, and in March. It's a lot. Even this thread demonstrates a lot of it.

Yes, while this thread started before then, by Jan 22nd, this thread took off. We knew something was up. It was pretty well established to be an issue.

As coronavirus outbreak worsens, China agrees to accept help from WHO

Chinese authorities agreed to allow the World Health Organization to send experts to China to assist with research and containment of the coronavirus outbreak.

www.latimes.com

By the 28th, the WHO was allowed in, however they were getting genetic data already. A lot of it has to do with the fact the CDC and other scientists tend to steal samples and publish the results, keeping the local scientists out of it. In China, that's worth like $100k. They were sharing data, just not samples, from what I understand... then.

Anyway, by mid Feb, I had already sold off about a third of my stocks in my IRA. Should have done more. My boss cashed of most of his IRA, and he has a substantial amount more than I do. He sold ALL his stocks. We don't have any special info. We just read the news and are smart enough to see what kind of a sheet show this was going to be.

 

[St. Widge]

So what is your point? Any wet market that poses a public health hazard due to cross species viral infection needs to be shut down, whether it’s in China, CA, NY, or any country in the world.

Should the number one goal not be to minimize the risk of this happening again?

Did I say otherwise?

 

[Saint_Ward]

I've been banging this drum, even at work, that the airlines needed to wake the fork up and give everyone a mask and make it mandatory for flying. Should have been doing this two months ago.

That's four carriers now, and Southwest is mulling it, but I expect them to follow suit very soon. The bigger deal is securing masks.

The new normal? US airlines announce requirements for passengers to wear face masks

Beginning Monday, Delta, United and JetBlue will require passengers to wear face coverings. Southwest and Alaska will do so beginning May 11.

www.usatoday.com

 

[St. Widge]

Yeah, agree. It might be something that the viral science can show is just too dangerous at this point (the numbers and the proximity are getting too high) and there can be pressure to end it.

But you can't say it's a source of fault for this outbreak - like you said, they're common around the world. The better focus is on China's initial response in the first few weeks (in December). Governments should be held accountable for failing to alert the world community about a new virus. We have avenues for it, alert the public-health agencies just as a good world citizen - and let the science steer the response. The early period is so critical, there has to be disclosure requirements.

What if the next one is in an African country fraught with corruption and factionalism - and it's a much worse virus? What if the next one is in China? We need a new global accord on emerging disease that focuses on early sharing of information. The WHO was supposed to be that structure but it's clearly broken.

I agree there need to be a better mechanism to deal with this issue. But in this situation, especially because we are dealing with China, I'm 100% sure that the U.S. and world intelligence community knew something was going on before any news reports came out and not long after the Chinese knew. Governments in at least the larger countries had the information to act, they just didn't. Whether that be because they didn't believe it, didn't appreciate the risk, or just cared more about protecting their economy, I don't know. But this focus on China is just a blame game to distract attention from the failures of other world leaders. The Chinese government certainly takes a large part of the blame here, but they aren't the only ones at fault.

But, you are right that if this happens someplace else, a place like some corner of Africa that has no strategic interests to the world intelligence community and is controlled by various warlords, it would get out of control much faster so steps need to be taken to monitor and have a faster world response to things like this in the future. The WHO was not prepared and didn't take proper steps. But the same can be said of our own CDC.

 

[St. Widge]

Except that most of the rest of the world doesn't have a history of coronavirus outbreaks originating from their markets. The fact that China shut them down after the SARS outbreak should tell you something. Eventually they just let them reopen. Maybe they shouldn't have.

Coronavirus variants are far from the only threat. But, I don't disagree that China should have shut them down and so should other countries around the world. Even if you ignore the horrible treatment of the animals at those things, the danger of spreading other types of viruses from wet markets around the world exists.

 

[PurpleBlack&Gold]

Coronavirus variants are far from the only threat. But, I don't disagree that China should have shut them down and so should other countries around the world. Even if you ignore the horrible treatment of the animals at those things, the danger of spreading other types of viruses from wet markets around the world exists.

I think that was also likely how Ebola outbreaks occur. They say "bush meat," but its likely sold at markets with similar conditions.

 

[St. Widge]

I think that was also likely how Ebola outbreaks occur. They say "bush meat," but its likely sold at markets with similar conditions.

Yep. And although Ebola is much harder to spread, that's mostly because it kills so fast. And, I'm sure there are many other viruses that can potentially be spread the same way.

 

[booya]

Hiya Friends,

Haven't been here since a while. mainly because I was during the last months extremly busy. (Normal Day2Day job) + with building and coaching our (under 19y) Youth American Football Team here in Hamburg Germany.
As our season normally should have started 2 weeks ago. We do have a very good team together and should have a fair chance reaching the Youth German Bowl this year.

But... here we are
All what we currently can do is to run Videosessions 4times a week and send our players new selfmade Video drills and instructions to stay fit at home.


However, the situation in Germany is definitly not as severe as it seems to be for the US.
Its heartbreaking to hear those news from your country and state and especially at it seems that (Again) mainly the poor und less financial fortunate minorities are affected the most.
I can only highly recommend to take this serious and act with common sense.
The harder and disciplined you act for some weeks, the higher the chance to go back to a somewhat normality soon.

Sending best whishes and thoughts from Germany.