COVID-19 Outbreak (Update: More than 2.9M cases and 132,313 deaths in US) (3 Viewers)

[Saint_Ward]

They never touched the majority of the makeshift units put in place. No one that needed a ventilator was denied. Everyone that was pulled from their regular jobs to man the response teams have been sent back. And now the hospitals are short hundreds of millions from the lack of business and employees are having to make sacrifices in vacation pay and contract employees are being voided. It's kind of weird for contract nurses to be fired during a pandemic because of restrictions placed in response to it, no?

You know, that's a good thing, and the safer at home orders are what made that possible. It's like saying a dog, running after a car, was stopped by his leash, then you go and say, "see, we don't need a leash on the dog, he stopped right there, he didn't even get hit by the car". The infection rate wasn't changing, until changes were made in the general public.

You do realize that the decision to shutter certain businesses was going to be made for us, if not early by government officials, then late due to the illness.

Do you think flying ground to a halt just because of 'safer at home' orders? We never ate out much anyway, but we even have limited our delivery orders. Itching to go to a hotel any time soon? Cruise? Think those meat processing plants closed due to Government orders? (technically yes, but as a response to a massive infection spike at the plant, due to likely not taking good safety precautions) . Getting on a street car any time soon? Bus? Train? How will you feel about a concert? A sporting event?

The hospitals part can be fixed, and I believe they are trending that way.... by allowing non-emergency procedures and having procedures in place to keep COVID cases away from the general population and preventing/limiting doctor/nurse travel between the two groups. A/C vents need to be reviewed as well to make sure there isn't spread that way.

I get a bit fussy about this "shut down the whole economy talk". First off, the whole economy isn't shut down. Significant parts are, but not all of it. I"m not even sure it's half (anyone have data on this?) and many of those parts, were shutting down due to consumer sentiment/choices anyway.

Don't you think I want those jobs getting back to normal? Hell, I'm working 3 days a week (and being paid as such) due to people not flying. It sucks. It sucks hard. But it will be worse if we go about this stupidly and get hit with a harder round 2, with a 900k case head start.

 

[Loose Cannon]

And, refusing to give information to the gubment is just what I would expect from a guy with an above ground pool.

 

[Saint_Ward]

She deserves her punishment. She was on the local news basically daring the city to do something about her opening. She was warned and then when she continued to openly violate the order, she was fined and then held in contempt. Now she's got a week in jail and $7k fine. I wouldn't care if they threw out the fine and just made her serve the time. I think everyone gets her point about needing to make money, but rules are rules and other businesses complied. Maybe she was hoping other businesses would follow her but none did.

You down with OPP?

Nope.

 

[Taurus]

Possibly. However, that muddies the point.

The point is that the second wave will come hard and fast if we're impatient and act rashly on this.

My point was that Wave 2 will likely come 10x harder and faster.

 

[Eeyore]

hahahahaha, you think we can’t track you.. that’s cute.

But more seriously, you’d have to leave your phone at home or turn it off and put it in a Faraday cage PERMANENTLY. You’re tracked whether you like it or not.

Online, from your personal PC, you perhaps have some options if you use a VPN but even then there are ways to track you.

People who use any form of payment other than bartering or cash are tracked.

 

[Taurus]

So that means the mortality rate is far lower. Thank you for pointing that out.

And? What's your point?
Whether the fatality rate is 3% or .3% makes little difference when we have the evidence of our own eyes that C19 can overwhelm even a robust First-World healthcare system like New York's or Italy's.

 

[Xeno]

hahahahaha, you think we can’t track you.. that’s cute.

But more seriously, you’d have to leave your phone at home or turn it off and put it in a Faraday cage PERMANENTLY. You’re tracked whether you like it or not.

Online, from your personal PC, you perhaps have some options if you use a VPN but even then there are ways to track you.

Seriously, it doesn't even matter if you turn GPS tracking off. Every phone has a unique ID assigned to it, and if you live in or near any metro area you're constantly pinging at least three cell towers. Most modern vehicles are almost more computer than car at this point too, with similar potential for tracking. You would need to ditch your phone, drive a car that's at least 20-25 years old, never use a computer and never use a credit/debit card to get away from all the ways you can be tracked. And then there are still surveillance cameras just about everywhere. Privacy is, and has always been, an illusion. Even privacy laws, which are few and far between in the US, don't cover everything. And don't even get me started on facebook.

 

[Saint_Ward]

Seriously, it doesn't even matter if you turn GPS tracking off. Every phone has a unique ID assigned to it, and if you live in or near any metro area you're constantly pinging at least three cell towers. Most modern vehicles are almost more computer than car at this point too, with similar potential for tracking. You would need to ditch your phone, drive a car that's at least 20-25 years old, never use a computer and never use a credit/debit card to get away from all the ways you can be tracked. And then there are still surveillance cameras just about everywhere. Privacy is, and has always been, an illusion. Even privacy laws, which are few and far between in the US, don't cover everything. And don't even get me started on facebook.

I walk into a Best Buy (well.. not lately), and my phone knows I'm there. The App pops up saying, we see you're at our XYZ location.

 

[gavinj]

Seriously, it doesn't even matter if you turn GPS tracking off. Every phone has a unique ID assigned to it, and if you live in or near any metro area you're constantly pinging at least three cell towers. Most modern vehicles are almost more computer than car at this point too, with similar potential for tracking. You would need to ditch your phone, drive a car that's at least 20-25 years old, never use a computer and never use a credit/debit card to get away from all the ways you can be tracked. And then there are still surveillance cameras just about everywhere. Privacy is, and has always been, an illusion. Even privacy laws, which are few and far between in the US, don't cover everything. And don't even get me started on facebook.

So why then, should businesses be forced to keep a log of their customers? It seems redundant with the credit card info and phone ping triangulation already making tracking us so easy.

 

[St. Widge]

So why then, should businesses be forced to keep a log of their customers? It seems redundant with the credit card info and phone ping triangulation already making tracking us so easy.

You would rather the government obtain all your tracking data from Google, Facebook, Twitter, other apps on your phone, discount cards, credit cards, etc. rather than writing your name and phone number down at the stores you go to? I mean, you don't even need to tell them the truth.

Personally, I'd rather have the choice to either write my name and number down at a store I choose to go to than have the government reading all the tracking data that is available about me whenever they want to.

 

[gavinj]

You would rather the government obtain all your tracking data from Google, Facebook, Twitter, other apps on your phone, discount cards, credit cards, etc. rather than writing your name and phone number down at the stores you go to? I mean, you don't even need to tell them the truth.

Personally, I'd rather have the choice to either write my name and number down at a store I choose to go to than have the government reading all the tracking data that is available about me whenever they want to.

They find out somebody has the virus. They track that persons movements. They identify the citizens who were in the same locations around the same time and notify them. Don’t be paranoid. We’re at war. It’s an emergency.

 

[AARPSaint]

Two things: (1) I can't even remember the last time I used cash. It's well known for being laden with germs. (2) If you are traveling around with a cell phone, you are traced. That's how we know, for instance, that people in my county are largely staying put.

Actually, three things: Our county is in effect being penalized for re-opening because there are at least two nursing homes in the county, and that skews the figures upward by a lot. One of them, very sad to say, is a veterans home where covid is rampant. There is nothing regular citizens can do about that. Almost all of northern PA will move to yellow status on Friday. We'll be very much delayed.

 

[Saint by the Bay]

I walk into a Best Buy (well.. not lately), and my phone knows I'm there. The App pops up saying, we see you're at our XYZ location.

I drive by a Verizon store and my phone asks me to check in for a spot in line.

 

[Saint_Ward]

I drive by a Verizon store and my phone asks me to check in for a spot in line.

 

[Xeno]

So why then, should businesses be forced to keep a log of their customers? It seems redundant with the credit card info and phone ping triangulation already making tracking us so easy.

Because with or without GPS, it isn't accurate enough to know if you were in the store or drove past it from 20 feet away. Not to mention to get credit card or phone tracking data, those providers would require a court order. This sheet isn't that complicated and the government doesn't give enough of a sheet what gavinj from SaintsReport does to bother tracking your movement under normal circumstances.

I repeat: THIS IS FOR HOSPITALS. NOT THE GOVERNMENT. STOP BEING PARANOID. YOU ARE NOT THAT IMPORTANT.