COVID-19 Outbreak (Update: More than 2.9M cases and 132,313 deaths in US) (21 Viewers)

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Eeyore

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UPDATED TRACKER LINKS:





It shouldn't be a big deal but with a large number of people unable to afford healthcare, and the anti vax crowd growing there's a small chance that this could be interesting.
 
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Mr. Sparkle

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May 22 (UPI) -- A potential vaccine for COVID-19 appears to be safe and able to generate an immune response against the virus, according to a study published Friday by The Lancet.

The new study marks the first time the vaccine was tested in humans.




The findings are preliminary, and based on observations made over the first 28 days after the vaccine was administered. The final results are to be evaluated in six months.
 

DaveXA

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I'm not trying to be contrary, but we shouldn't be presumptuous about an outbreak. There's a host of factors that could lead to a hospital being overwhelmed quickly and different areas of the country are not comparable in this way. NYC is not comparable to any place in the country much less a city in Alabama. We're acting like this outbreak should behave according to our opinions of it. It doesn't work like that. With all we know about the flu, the annual formulation is still not always perfect. It's very possible for COVID-19 for a variety of reasons to cause a spike in confirmed or suspected cases in a city or area.
I'm just saying we haven't seen that yet and before the article, I hadn't read anything on it. It's not a declarative statement, but rather an observation. I'm not ruling anything out with my comments.
 

Infoman

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Can he really do this?

I'm not at all "religious", and I don't attend services... nor do I want to get into a political discussion... but for the life of me.... I can't understand why we can absolutely pack every WalMart, Costo, Sam's Club, WinnDixie, etc etc etc on a daily basis... but for some reason... once a week worship services / gatherings is a problem... can someone explain this logic to me without assuming all "religious" people attending a service are somehow dumber and more likely spread this virus than your average everyday WalMart shopper?
 

Loose Cannon

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Even so, it's probably still really good news. Just having 40% of the population with a vaccine would get us much closer to herd immunity and bring the spread way, way down. And the actual article does say that the vaccine created a boosted immune response even in those in the group that the vaccine isn't perfect for, which would reduce fatality for the other 50-60%.
 

DaveXA

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Can he really do this?

He certainly can't do it on his own, but he can get the DOJ involved by filing injunctions in states refusing to allow churches to open up. The governors do need to be careful not to single out or treat churches differently than other businesses and organizations. The law should be applied evenly and fairly. As long as the governors are not singling out any particular group, they shouldn't have anything to worry about.

Personally, if I was a pastor, I'd most likely not have in person services until a state has reached at least phase 2 of the reopening guidance. I'm not sure how many, if any are already at phase 2. And even then, would require all attendees to were masks and safely distance while at the service. Any who are sick would be required to stay home.
 

DaveXA

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I'm not at all "religious", and I don't attend services... nor do I want to get into a political discussion... but for the life of me.... I can't understand why we can absolutely pack every WalMart, Costo, Sam's Club, WinnDixie, etc etc etc on a daily basis... but for some reason... once a week worship services / gatherings is a problem... can someone explain this logic to me without assuming all "religious" people attending a service are somehow dumber and more likely spread this virus than your average everyday WalMart shopper?
I do think churches are different, particularly from stores. I average maybe 10-15 minutes in a store. So I'm not there near as long as in a church. Also, during worship, everyone is singing and that has potentially been a big culprit in the spread of the virus. Entire choirs, church and otherwise, have been sickened by all singing in proximity. I really think the length of exposure dramatically increases the risk of getting infected. Like nurses who have gotten severely sick from working long and exhausting hours with covid patients.

I think it's too soon for most churches to start in person services, but the states will still have to apply the law equally to all organizations or they'll have problems.
 

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I'm not at all "religious", and I don't attend services... nor do I want to get into a political discussion... but for the life of me.... I can't understand why we can absolutely pack every WalMart, Costo, Sam's Club, WinnDixie, etc etc etc on a daily basis... but for some reason... once a week worship services / gatherings is a problem... can someone explain this logic to me without assuming all "religious" people attending a service are somehow dumber and more likely spread this virus than your average everyday WalMart shopper?
Because you are next to specific people for longer periods of time, so if they are infected, you will have a long exposure over time to the virus, rather than just passing someone in an aisle. And there is more singing/speaking in church which makes one more likely to expel viruses. Only occasionally in Costco do you see someone belting out a hymn (can't speak for Walmart).

With that said, with social distancing and masks, I think you could make it work (hi, Costco!), but you won't see me there.

edit: what @DaveXA said.
 

Saintaholic

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I'm not at all "religious", and I don't attend services... nor do I want to get into a political discussion... but for the life of me.... I can't understand why we can absolutely pack every WalMart, Costo, Sam's Club, WinnDixie, etc etc etc on a daily basis... but for some reason... once a week worship services / gatherings is a problem... can someone explain this logic to me without assuming all "religious" people attending a service are somehow dumber and more likely spread this virus than your average everyday WalMart shopper?

To add to what others have stated already, you also have to factor in that many if not most congregations have a lot of the at-risk populations in them.

Churches really are hotbeds for spreads and subsequent deaths, especially the ones that are packed into relatively tight spaces (most).

The amount of outbreaks in churches and pastors dying has been eye-opening.
 

B4YOU

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I'm not at all "religious", and I don't attend services... nor do I want to get into a political discussion... but for the life of me.... I can't understand why we can absolutely pack every WalMart, Costo, Sam's Club, WinnDixie, etc etc etc on a daily basis... but for some reason... once a week worship services / gatherings is a problem... can someone explain this logic to me without assuming all "religious" people attending a service are somehow dumber and more likely spread this virus than your average everyday WalMart shopper?
There has been multiple instances of community spread from church attendance. Many churches would need to alter services in order to prevent viral spread. It's one thing to close churches in a pandemic, have a phased in plan for them reopening, and even limit occupancy. It's probably not acceptable, constitutionally, to put stipulations on how to worship. Things like handshakes, singing, drinking from communal cups, etc. really can't be limited by the state once they reopen. Also, churches are not essential services. The typical religious person is no smarter or dumber than the average American. People who don't believe they can get and transmit a virus within the confines of a church are dumb. I am not sure about the relative dumbness of that person vs the average WalMart shopper as there is probably significant overlap.
 

DavidM

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My sister forwarded some information from a local news station in which it was reported that there have been 124 infections and 17 fatalities among 155 residents in the nursing home my mom was in, and 34 staff have been infected. My mom died there on March 5, under hospice care, in respiratory failure and on supplemental oxygen.

Seeing the reported data of the localized outbreak raises some questions in our family, but also with the knowledge that my mom's health was poor, and included a diagnosis of interstitial lung disease several years ago, though the certainty of that would become less clear in the time that followed.

We will never know if she was infected, though there have been no indications of transmission among family and friends that we know of, which leaves me doubtful. If there's a silver-lining, it's that she passed away days before the crisis really set in so we were able to be with her and then honor her with a proper funeral. Also the knowing that if she wasn't infected, she almost certainly would have been eventually.

Surreal, though, to know that so many people we would have encountered in our visits there have suffered on such a scale. The numbers are staggering and really drive home just how devastating this illness can be to vulnerable people.
 

Infoman

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So the assumption that people don't stay in a store for more than an hour, and/or people don't stay close to each other or speak loudly in stores near other people (as opposed to services), and people that attend servies are more at risk than say the massive number of older, overweight, mobility scooter riding people at WalMart?

That's not my experience. (especially in WalMart / WinnDixie)

And I was assuming that religious services would have to follow the same social distancing / mask / capacity protocols as all other places of gathering....

Seems anecdotal to restrict one and not the other based on those assumptions. JMO
 

DaveXA

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To add to what others have stated already, you also have to factor in that many if not most congregations have a lot of the at-risk populations in them.

Churches really are hotbeds for spreads and subsequent deaths, especially the ones that are packed into relatively tight spaces (most).
That, and it's difficult to predict how many might show up in a given week. I think it would have to depend on the size and layout of the church. If at all possible, the ideal situation would be to hold the services outside. Many churches have space outside and they should utilize that to the extent possible. If there's inclement weather, be safe and do the service online.

Great point about churches being a gathering place for the most vulnerable in our population. What's happening in nursing homes can happen in churches if pastors are not careful. They're responsible for their congregations and should be as prudent as possible in protecting them.
 

Loose Cannon

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So the assumption that people don't stay in a store for more than an hour, and/or people don't stay close to each other or speak loudly in stores near other people (as opposed to services)?

That's not my experience. (especially in WalMart / WinnDixie)

And I was assuming that religious services would have to follow the same social distancing / mask / capacity protocols as all other places of gathering)....

Seems anecdotal to restrict one and not the other base on those assumptions. JMO
Yeah Dave must not shop with his wife. Mine take 2 hours round trip and the HEB is about a par 7 from the house.

My track record is 11 minutes 💪
 
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