Dallas executive says Rob Ryan was fired in Dallas because he used too many schemes, according to report (1 Viewer)

[PayOrPlay]

No, he would just be demonstrating his clear above-cowboy intelligence by leaving them for us.

Exactly!

And we have tended to sign smart players. (Still not sure we can afford to keep all of them unless they renegotiate, though.)

 

[humbrah]

G Dubs ran a "complex" system and they did pretty good. I know stat wise, (other than the take aways in 09, top 10 in 2010, middle lower ranking 2011) we werent great but we were good enough to help out Brees and co and have our three best seasons ever. So imo thats not a problem. I think the guys will enjoy being more aggressive again.

What strikes me as odd is.....how **** "complex"was Spags scheme?!?! I mean in 2010 I remember Williams saying they had something like over 50 packages. I could be wrong btw

 

[muzzy]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>Scott Shanle suggests Spags' defense didn't work because it was too complicated in it's design, and now Ryan got fired for too many schemes</p>&mdash; Saints Nation Blog (@SaintsNationBlg) <a href="https://twitter.com/SaintsNationBlg/status/304714691916201986">February 21, 2013</a></blockquote>
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[Saint_Ward]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>Scott Shanle suggests Spags' defense didn't work because it was too complicated in it's design, and now Ryan got fired for too many schemes</p>&mdash; Saints Nation Blog (@SaintsNationBlg) <a href="https://twitter.com/SaintsNationBlg/status/304714691916201986">February 21, 2013</a></blockquote>
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Too many schemes doesn't mean too complicated.

 

[jimrip]

Right but the sort of complexity Ryan is bringing to the table is exactly what Greg Williams was doing here. So I'm not sure it's really that big of an adjustment for our defense, especially if we retain veterans like Smith, Vilma, and Harper (which seems likely to some degree). I do feel as though the emphasis should be on starting with a limited package and adding pieces as you progress, that too is similar to what GW did in 2009 when he first got here.

Didn't GW in an interview towards the end of the 2009 season say that he started with 18 schemes and they picked it up so fast that he was up to 27 by the Superbowl? "27 ways to beat 11"? Seems like a good fit here.

 

[krushing]

He better scheme with this bunch. That's exactly why I wanted him.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

Sounds like the D will have to hit the books hard:



Dallas executive says Rob Ryan was fired in Dallas because he used too many schemes, according to report | NOLA.com

They were flagged for high amounts ofpenalties and seemed to get confused a lot as far as responsibilities but their back end was young. We are a bit longer in the tooth @LB and CB with Greer/Lofton/Vilma.

Between Vilma and Jenkins we should be able to get guys lined up. It also helps that 3G's system b4 was personell/package heavy so guys were in an out of the game a lot. They should be used to it.

I hope it won't be a problem...it could be but I'm going to lean to it not being a problem because we have a better HC than Dallas had. I think SP goes a long way into keeping the ENTIRE team disciplined.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

G Dubs ran a "complex" system and they did pretty good. I know stat wise, (other than the take aways in 09, top 10 in 2010, middle lower ranking 2011) we werent great but we were good enough to help out Brees and co and have our three best seasons ever. So imo thats not a problem. I think the guys will enjoy being more aggressive again.

What strikes me as odd is.....how **** "complex"was Spags scheme?!?! I mean in 2010 I remember Williams saying they had something like over 50 packages. I could be wrong btw

What strikes me as funny is that people pretend like 09 season was the only season that we were able to generate opportunities for turnovers in 3G's scheme.

I always feel the need to remind people that our 10 season could have been just as good in TO's if guys would have caught the ball. We had a lot of dropped INT's and TONS of fumbles that we didn't recover in 3G's last two seasons.

They were definitely there as far as opportunites.

 

[fr3sh]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>Scott Shanle suggests Spags' defense didn't work because it was too complicated in it's design, and now Ryan got fired for too many schemes</p>&mdash; Saints Nation Blog (@SaintsNationBlg) <a href="https://twitter.com/SaintsNationBlg/status/304714691916201986">February 21, 2013</a></blockquote>
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Gregg ran an aggressive 3-4 hybrid defense most games. Spags ran a base 4-3 with complex defensive line stunts and complex down field zones. His scheme was just a terrible fit for what the majority of our guys were used to running. That's why we still saw some younger guys having success. Lofton was good in run support. Cam Jordan is developing nicely and played well in both schemes. Isa-Abdul is knocking on the door.

What I'm saying is, the majority of our defenders grew up in Gregg's scheme. That's where they made their mark. Now what sounds better from a front office's point of view: Completely overhaul the defensive personnel or make a change at coordinator? I'll choose the latter. Especially if it's for a creative mind like Rob Ryan. I can see our guys buying into the scheme and start to have some fun again. Remember Malcolm Jenkins and Roman Harper "Moving it Like Bernie" after completely dismantling the Bears? The defense was confident in the system and it showed.

That is also why Sean should be very excited about working with Rob. Rob is still out to prove something. It felt like at the end of Gregg's tenure, he just got lazy with his calls. He was a cocky dude, and it sometimes got the better of him.

Hopefully Rob can re-ignite the fire that we were used to seeing from the D.

 

[deltadawg]

Claiborne is a genius! Well....

 

[jazzjack]

Just like i been saying all along. RR schemes is to complex. A defense can not pick up what he is trying to do in one year. He had to much going on. I hope im wrong but i really think RR was a bad hire and we right bk in the boat where we started with Spags.

In other words folks should have gone to class instead, we have teams of dumba$$$$.

 

[El Caliente]

The good news for us is our guys didn't bother learning any defense last year, so their minds should be clear and ready to learn.

 

[MG3n2K5]

Seems like another good reason to keep Vilma around. Not only is he good at picking up schemes, he is good at passing it on to his teammates quickly.

 

[WHODATDYLAN]

I feel like this was the reason why spag's d didn't work. Players couldn't digest it in time

 

[LSSpam]

What strikes me as funny is that people pretend like 09 season was the only season that we were able to generate opportunities for turnovers in 3G's scheme.

I always feel the need to remind people that our 10 season could have been just as good in TO's if guys would have caught the ball. We had a lot of dropped INT's and TONS of fumbles that we didn't recover in 3G's last two seasons.

They were definitely there as far as opportunites.

Fumble recovery rates, over time, average out for all teams. That is, while some defenses are better or worse at forcing fumbles, the amount of fumbles recovered tends to be random and therefore will regress/progress towards the mean regardless of scheme/personal/etc. Which makes sense, it's an odd shaped oblong ball, it bounces randomly and whether it bounces towards you, your opponent, or the sideline is pretty much a dice roll.

In 2010 we forced 28 fumbles, second in the NFL. We only recovered 16. The jets, by contrast who were run by defensive mastermind Rex Ryan forced only 17 fumbles....but recovered 18 (botched snap I guess?).

As is the norm, odd averages will tend to regress back to the norm. In 2011 the Jets defense forced 23 fumbles, actually better, but because the fumble recovery rate isn't 106%, when they recovered a more normal rate grabbing 12 fumbles, well suddenly their defense was slipping.

Incidentally the Saints forced 20 fumbles that year, tying for forth (with San Francisco actually), but had even worse luck recovering only 7.

So you can legitimately say we had some "bad bounces" for sure.