Deandre Brown commits to USM. (1 Viewer)

[St. Reginald]

It's not an LSU vs. USM thing, I think everyone knows where the two programs stand. It's just acknowledging that a.) Had he been able to make the grades he was going to LSU. b.) The academic standards are different from conference to conference and today USM was able to take advantage of that.

We didn't "want" to get Brown. We had Brown were he able to qualify.

Again, they didn't steal any recruit from any SEC school. Of course they should be happy (as I've said quite a few times) but we must be "real" in discussing topics like this.

Per SMQ (www.sundaymorningqb.com)
Miles was indeed in Ocean Springs last week, per Brown's high school coach, Todd Mangum, who I have known since I was a kid, and who told me on the record from Brown's signing 'party' Wednesday morning:
"[Brown] chose USM because he was more comfortable. He's comfortable with the coaches, with Tony Hughes, who had been recruiting him [beginning at Ole Miss, on Ed Orgeron's staff]. He likes Coach Fedora...DeAndre is going to be eligible. He is going to qualify. That was not an issue...[Miles' visit] was nothing any different than any other staff has done."

From the NCAA's perspective, the eligibility standards for Southern Miss and LSU are exactly the same

Per the Southern Miss athletic department's Director of Academics, Stacy Breazelle:

"There is no such thing as a partial qualifier anymore. That terminology no longer exists. You're either a qualifier or you're not a qualifier."

The point is that the question of whether a player can get into school and play or he can't play doesn't change because he chose Southern Miss, or a Conference USA school; he's just as eligible or ineligible no matter what school he attends, in any I-A conference, and aside from a few supposed academic bastions (Notre Dame, Michigan, Northwestern, Cal, Stanford, et al), enrollment standards virtually never stand in the way of an eligibile player (people get really cranky when they do). The same alternate admission routes are open to every school.

Owned.

 

[peytonknows]

I'd feel better about this story if the guy knew what he was talking about. I'm not going to sit here and address every point. But this...

"There is no such thing as a partial qualifier anymore. That terminology no longer exists. You're either a qualifier or you're not a qualifier."

is absolutely false.


I'm sure others will address the errors and false information for your little attempted ownage.

 

[St. Reginald]

Again, from SMQ:

So from the NCAA's perspective, the eligibility standards for Southern Miss and LSU are exactly the same. If there is a higher or lower academic standard at either school, it's imposed by the institution itself. Here are general freshman admissions requirements for Southern Miss; here are the requirements at LSU. The latter, despite listing "recommended" scores for the average student, does not have a minimum GPA, but the minimum ACT score for all students entering LSU is an 18. Southern Miss uses a sliding scale: for students with a 3.2 GPA or higher, pretty much any ACT score will do, as long as there is one and it's not in the single digits. For a 2.5-3.1 GPA, it takes a 16 ACT; for a 2.0-2.4 GPA, the minimum ACT is an 18. Under these guidelines, the only way Brown could be eligible at USM but not LSU is with a GPA above 2.5 and a composite ACT within a two-point window, i.e. a 16 or 17. I don't know Brown's grades or test scores, but if he is currently within this sliver of a gray area that leaves him eligible to enroll at USM but not LSU, he would still have months (probably the summer as well) to make up one or two points on the test needed to play for the Tigers. LSU (or any other school) would never pass on a kid it wanted under these circumstances, and it is foolish and deserved to lose him if it did. If Brown's GPA is between a 2.0 and 2.5, which makes him an enrollment risk at both schools (again, LSU lists no minimum GPA), the minimum ACT score (18) is the same for both.

Re: partial qualifiers, per the Southern Miss athletic department's Director of Academics, Stacy Breazelle:

"There is no such thing as a partial qualifier anymore. That terminology no longer exists. You're either a qualifier or you're not a qualifier."
- - -
Technically, this is true: a member of Conference USA's offices (who is not in PR and didn't want to be named) also said the NCAA abolished the sliding scale defining "partial qualifiers" a few years ago, and used the same phrase, "you're a qualifier or you're not a qualifier." He added, though, that there are exceptions to every rule, and this is also true: the NCAA may grant a "partial waiver" that effectively designates a player a "partial qualifier" with the same restrictions as the old standards (he may practice but not participate in games his first year, and, unlike a redshirt, that year counts against his eligibility). In Article 14 of the SEC Bylaws, for example, it says this regarding the "partial qualifier and non-qualifier":
Men's sports are permitted to enroll an annual total of four (4) student-athletes classified as partial or non- qualifiers, with no more than two (2) permitted annually in football, and not more than one (1) permitted annually in any other sport.
- - -
That is, an SEC team is allowed to admit two partial or non-qualifiers for football at any one time, if the total number in all men's sports doesn't exceed four. This is the exact standard Dandy Don ascribed to Conference USA.
As for C-USA, I was told flatly, "Conference USA doesn't have a specific policy as it relates to non-qualifiers. We default to institutional standards," meaning the individual schools can seek a waiver per NCAA rules. The institutional standard at Southern Miss in the past is pretty clear: USM has not allowed a "partial qualifier" or any player through any alternate admissions route since joining Conference USA. Larry Fedora might be planning to break this precedent with Brown (which is fine by me), but the same route is available to LSU - not that anyone is in any position to make that leap right now, anyway, as noted by my C-USA source:

"It's February. For someone to say he's eligible or ineligible, I don't know how they can do that...A student athlete's final official eligibility cannot be determined until he's graduated from high school and all test scores are in."
- - -
Even as a partial qualifier, a player has to actually get into the school in the first place. If Brown's grades are so far from the mark with three months and a summer semester to go that he clearly has no chance of enrolling at LSU - that it's not even worth a flier for one of the top five receiver prospects in the country, in a conference where signees routinely come up short of eligiblity standards - he also has no chance of enrolling under near-identical standards at Southern Miss, and his recruitment is a complete waste of everyone's time.
I'd like to stress this point. Rivals.com's recruiting database goes back to 2002. The number of five-star commitments to Conference USA during that span prior to Brown: zero. The number of five-star commitments to the Mountain West during that span: three, all Mormons to BYU, and none of them since 2004 (and one of which, Ben Olson, is now at UCLA after bailing on the Cougars following his mission). The number of five-star commitments to the MAC: zero; prior to landing a couple four-star guys this year, the conference went five years without signing a single prospect rated above a three-star. The number of five-star commitments to the WAC: one, a JUCO linebacker returning home to Hawaii in 2002; the WAC, too, has now gone three full recruiting cycles without signing a single four-star prospect.

In other words, there is no precedent for major recruits signing with a mid-major conference team for academic reasons. Or for any reason at all outside of the Mormon religion or Polynesian solidarity. Literally zero precedent in the last seven years. Big-time kids fail to qualify at major progams on a regular basis, and when they do, they're shipped to junior college or a prep school, where the big boys have a chance to get them back in a year or two. None - again, literally none - have wound up playing at non-BCS schools. The reason: they can't. Eligibility is eligibility.

All of this is external, really, to DeAndre Brown, who may or may not be eligible in the fall. The point is that the question of whether a player can get into school and play or he can't play doesn't change because he chose Southern Miss, or a Conference USA school; he's just as eligible or ineligible no matter what school he attends, in any I-A conference, and aside from a few supposed academic bastions (Notre Dame, Michigan, Northwestern, Cal, Stanford, et al), enrollment standards virtually never stand in the way of an eligibile player (people get really cranky when they do). The same alternate admission routes are open to every school. Either LSU decided against all historical precedent that he wasn't worth the risk and Southern Miss - again, against all historical precedent, and common sense, too, if there is no chance of his enrolling at LSU - decided he was worth the risk, or Brown just chose Southern Miss for the reasons he said he did: it's close to home and he likes the coaches.

It was bound to happen eventually.

Pay extra close attention to that bold part. Now, if you want to argue semantics, be my guest. Other than that, I'm not sure what "errors and false information" you're talking about. And I wouldn't go on claiming that this "guy" doesn't know what he's talking about. He's considered one of the most informative and insightful college football bloggers out there with an incredible amount of inside sources, especially in the SEC.

 

[Hoyasaint]

I ain't reading all that

 

[peytonknows]

I did read it, the first post you made didn't include any of that. You put that one statement which I noted as false above. Look go ahead and read up on the NCAA website, then come back and argue.


Your claiming owned when this whole article is based on "what if".


Terrible.

 

[Dre]

it doesnt really matter anymore. For whatever reason(s) LSU does not have a big time prospect and USM got one. LSU will likely contend for a NC this year, and USM will not. But USM is now a better team for having Brown.

 

[MLU]

LSU has several big-time prospects.

 

[St. Reginald]

I did read it, the first post you made didn't include any of that. You put that one statement which I noted as false above. Look go ahead and read up on the NCAA website, then come back and argue.


Your claiming owned when this whole article is based on "what if".


Terrible.

What you're claiming is that Brown signed with USM because he didn't "make the grades" and that the Tigahs didn't want him. What SMQ is saying is that it's possible that he simply decided that he felt USM was a better fit for him and that there is absolutely no precedence for a big-time recruit signing with a non-BCS team because of ineligibility. It simply doesn't happen. This is given more weight by his inside sources which include Brown's high school coach who went on the record to say that Les' visit had nothing to do with academics and that not only is Brown going to qualify, but that it was never in doubt. I don't have a problem with the Tigahs and I'm in no way saying that USM is in some position to compete consistently with an SEC powerhouse like LSU. I'm just frustrated with the total reaming we've gotten after Bower's resignation and I'm excited that we finally have a coach who actually goes after recruits.

 

[Dre]

LSU has several big-time prospects.

I was referring specifically to him. LSU clearly has other big time prospects.

 

[bop]

it doesnt really matter anymore. For whatever reason(s) LSU does not have a big time prospect and USM got one. LSU will likely contend for a NC this year, and USM will not. But USM is now a better team for having Brown.

And we will still beat them by 40 in 09. Enjoy your one shining moment of this class USM. Reality will be smacking you in the face once the season starts and you hope for a Liberty Bowl at best.

 

[eaglefreak]

And we will still beat them by 40 in 09. Enjoy your one shining moment of this class USM. Reality will be smacking you in the face once the season starts and you hope for a Liberty Bowl at best.

What happened the last time we played? That's right, we won. If UAB can beat you at tiger stadium we can too.

 

[LSSpam]

From the NCAA's perspective, the eligibility standards for Southern Miss and LSU are exactly the same

USM, MSU, and Ole Miss are required by State law to have the exact same admission standards. That those standards are the same as LSU may or may not be true, but they are, at least, negligible.

However keying in on that factor . . . well it misses the point.

I'm quite familiar with Tony Hughes. I know where his playbook came from, it's the Ed Orgeron playbook. This is what USM is promising DeAndre Brown

1) They will call him and check up on him regularly to ensure he's making his grades

2) They will arrange for "academic support" for him while he is in college (technically against NCAA rules but that's not a factor)

3) If he fails to meet the qualifications out of High School they'll undoubtedly enroll him in a number of expensive correspondence courses over the Summer (which may or may not be accepted by the NCAA).

4) And during all of this they'll attempt to get him declared LD so that the requirements for him will be significantly lower.

Most schools are not willing to go through this trouble. Even for DeAndre Brown. Generally it's because if the kid has this much trouble even qualifying to begin with, how much effort is going to be required to keep him qualified in school (even with the schools copious academic support)? Again, Ole Miss is facing this struggle right now with many of our own former Tony Hughes/Ed Orgeron recruits.

Tell me, which Community College have Josh Tillman and Bo Tillman already enrolled in in the expectation that they won't qualify?

Co-Lin head coach Glenn Davis said that Franklin County defensive lineman Josh Tillman has signed with Co-Lin. Tillman had made a verbal commitment to sign with Southern Miss last week.

Giant defensive tackle Bo Tillman withdrew from Franklin County this week and enrolled in Genesis One, a prep school located in Mendenhall. He needs 13 core courses to graduate from high school and qualify for college. Bo is trying to follow in the footsteps of Wayne County defensive lineman Jerrel Powe, who originally signed with Ole Miss but was unable to qualify. After three years, Powe is still trying.

http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=19276150&BRD=1377&PAG=461&dept_id=172927&rfi=6

I've seen this before. I know what's going to happen, except it'll be worse for you guys because you don't have the money, yes the money, to pull it off that Ole Miss has. And it was a disaster for us.

Congratulations and good luck

 

[MLU]

I was referring specifically to him. LSU clearly has other big time prospects.

You'll have to excuse us LSU fans if we don't seem interested in Deandre Brown anymore. He had his chance. We already have several 5 star receivers and will be adding another to the fold this year, so we'll only concern ourselves with the.

Good luck with Deandre.

 

[bop]

What happened the last time we played? That's right, we won. If UAB can beat you at tiger stadium we can too.

Yes, you beat a 4-7 team by 2 points like 14 years ago. Congrats. I dont think youll find LSU to be the poorly coached 4-7 team they were back then.

 

[St. Reginald]

USM, MSU, and Ole Miss are required by State law to have the exact same admission standards. That those standards are the same as LSU may or may not be true, but they are, at least, negligible.

However keying in on that factor . . . well it misses the point.

I'm quite familiar with Tony Hughes. I know where his playbook came from, it's the Ed Orgeron playbook. This is what USM is promising DeAndre Brown

1) They will call him and check up on him regularly to ensure he's making his grades

2) They will arrange for "academic support" for him while he is in college (technically against NCAA rules but that's not a factor)

3) If he fails to meet the qualifications out of High School they'll undoubtedly enroll him in a number of expensive correspondence courses over the Summer (which may or may not be accepted by the NCAA).

4) And during all of this they'll attempt to get him declared LD so that the requirements for him will be significantly lower.

Most schools are not willing to go through this trouble. Even for DeAndre Brown. Generally it's because if the kid has this much trouble even qualifying to begin with, how much effort is going to be required to keep him qualified in school (even with the schools copious academic support)? Again, Ole Miss is facing this struggle right now with many of our own former Tony Hughes/Ed Orgeron recruits.

Tell me, which Community College have Josh Tillman and Bo Tillman already enrolled in in the expectation that they won't qualify?





http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=19276150&BRD=1377&PAG=461&dept_id=172927&rfi=6

I've seen this before. I know what's going to happen, except it'll be worse for you guys because you don't have the money, yes the money, to pull it off that Ole Miss has. And it was a disaster for us.

Congratulations and good luck

That's great and all, but you'll notice this thread is called D'Andre Brown signs with USM not Josh Tillman signs with USM. Tillman is a slighty above-average recruit at best. All acounts I've seen have him as a three star guy. The aspect of recruiting I was trying to focus on is the fact that there is zero precedent in the last 10 years or so for a top ten/five star recruit signing at a non-BCS school for any reason, let alone acedemic "ineligibility," plain and simple. Specifically, as the title of this thread suggests, I was focusing on Brown and the fact that maybe he signed with USM because he felt like it was the better choice for him. After all, that's what his own coach said on the record. I can assure you, I'm very well aware of Tony Hughes' methods and I've never been a huge fan of the guy (I mean he worked at Ole Miss for goodness sakes!). I was just glad to see Southern get such a great recruit from my hometown who wanted to stay close to home. It's something we've been desperately needing and something that Bower and his staff never would have gone after. I've had inside sources at Southern (Graduate Assistants) tell me that during the Bower years, they would often openly give up on a recruit without giving much effort because they figured the bigger recruits would want to play for the SEC schools in the state (let's be real, that's the draw for State and Ole Miss). I'm just glad to see a staff who will go after the big-time recruits from Mississippi. If I were you, I'd start worrying about your defense after picking up Tyrone Nix. He led USM to their worst defensive seasons in decades and didn't fare much better with USC.