Defense will still be bad if we don't get a DT (1 Viewer)

SebaSaint

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I know that this has been covered to an extent in several other threads but I think it is the KEY to the defense being good this year. So here it goes:

I think the moves we've made thus far are good, I love Vilma, I really like the McCray and Gay signings. FO has done a good job of adding pieces to to every tier of the defense, but unless we get a push up the middle with a dominant tackle, the best we can be is mediocre to decent this year.

Great defenses start at the line of scrimmage, if you get a dominant player in the middle of your defensive line, this frees up your ends to attack, allows your linebackers to flow unhindered and lets your corners pick off poorly thrown passes because of the pressure from that key tackle position and pass rushing ends.

We have the ends, now including McCray, we have the Linebackers, Vilma and Fujita are good to great and hopefully we add a will through the draft because it's deep, and we have decent corners with Gay and barring a setback with the predator. The biggest piece of the puzzle that is missing is a dominant DT... I think our defense last year would have been much better if we had a push up the middle.

Young is oft injured and Thomas is old... this to me is the key to having a great defense this year. There is absolutely nothing in Free Agency and we know that we'd be hard pressed to get Dorsey or Ellis sitting at 10. The 10 spot is worth 1300 points and I think the only way we get either of the two is to trade with the Jets at the 6 spot which is worth 1600 points. Our second is worth too much at 490 and and our third round is just short at around 220-230 (not sure which pick in the third).

The Jets to me are a good trading partner because they need multiple picks to upgrade their team. Their biggest needs are wide receiver and right offensive tackle. So this could be an attractive option for the because they could get our ten and third and still pick up Clady at the ten spot or We could switch first rounders and trade them Devery or Robert Meachem... preferably Devery IMO.

A third option is Balmer... I didn't like this at all when I first saw a couple of mocks with his name linked to the Saints, but with Dorsey and Ellis being as close to proven commodities as you get with the draft they will be gone at 10 and if we don't trade up for them do we try to trade down?

Kentwan Balmer is one of those late bloomers where the light came on late. He is your typical Boom or Bust player... do you take the huge risk of drafting him hoping that his late bloom in college continues in the pros... physically he has the tools so to speak and he compares to Richard Seymour... but this is a big risk.

This is all bringing me back to my original point... I don't think we will be a great defense until we get someone in the middle to dominate... I hope that's someone we can get this year, if not maybe next year... what do you think?
 

baarbogast

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We are more than 1 player from a SB. I would stay put at 10 unless someone blows us a way with an offer. Just looking at the players still available and then the potential June 1 cuts, I think we are in a great position to build a D. This is a deep draft for DTs and CBs and we've traded for Vilma to upgrade the LBs.
 

SaintsJunkie

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I agree, it's not flashy, but we need pressure and our ends are locked up and we added a third DE, now we have to get some youth to the DT so they hold up in the second half of the game and season. and stop the run, tie up blockers for vilma to do his job. etc.
 

lildyce504

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I like our chances @ getting Dorsey or Vilma @ 10. Even then there's alway June 1. I don't think we need a dominate guy there, just a hard worker plus Hollis Thomas & Clancey are fine 2 tech. The 3 tech is where we need to improve.
 

Treybad

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I believe the defense is more than a DT away from being a legitmate SB contender..... Randall Gay and Vilma dont make this defense good enough too be a SB contender.....
I believe Payton will have too strike gold, like he did in his first draft before this defense can be mentioned in the same breath as a SB contender....
 

Torgo

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I do think we need a good pass rushing DT who can at least hold his own against the run, but I don't believe not getting one will mean the defense can't improve. Keep in mind, a blitzing Vilma gets the QB a hell of a lot faster than a blitzing Scott Shanle.
 

2fya

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i disagree. we need a little bit more than one DT to become a top 10-15 defense. grant hasnt played to his full potential lately, vilma isnt a lock to be completely healthy, and our safeties are subpar.

i do agree though that getting a solid DT would put us in much greater position than if we drafted for any other position
 
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SebaSaint

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I see what y'all are saying, I just think that you can make a mediocre defense a good to very good defense if you have that DT that just eats up blocks cause it all comes down to bodies on bodies and if you have someone wreaking havoc in the middle they need to get two bodies on that person is frees up everyone else to do their job better.
 

2fya

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I see what y'all are saying, I just think that you can make a mediocre defense a good to very good defense if you have that DT that just eats up blocks cause it all comes down to bodies on bodies and if you have someone wreaking havoc in the middle they need to get two bodies on that person is frees up everyone else to do their job better.

you are absolutely right, a great DT can do those things for a team. the only thing that concerns me is that even if we would get a dorsey or an ellis, we still have a few holes to fill before we are a top 10-15 defense.

but i agree, a great DT would be a major improvement
 

CitySaint

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The DT's we have are not horrible they are just old. They get the job done and are capable starters in the league. B. Young provides decent pressure on the qb, sure its not like Glover when he was here but it ain't a poor showing on his part. The back end of our D needs major upgrading more so than the front four.

Not one person in our secondary is a true starter now that Mckenzie is out. If the Saints cut any of them they would all likely be back-up material on other teams. None of our linebackers are starters with the exception of Vilma who is the one legged man right now.
 

ELLIASJWILLIAMS

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Trevor Laws is a sound 3Tech DT we already have a big body in Hollis Thomas all we need is a decent pass rushing DT who can collapse the pocket up the middle and make the qb run into our outside rushers
 

ELLIASJWILLIAMS

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None of our linebackers are starters with the exception of Vilma who is the one legged man right now.

{mod edit - please seek a higher level of discourse - kd}
 
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SebaSaint

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The top 3 4-3 Defenses last year were Tampa, Green Bay and New York (G), They were among the top pass defenses as well. What these three teams had in common are sacks coming from the interior line... well exception was the Giants, they had sacks coming from everywhere, but my point is as follows, Tampa was the best 4-3 defense and they had 6 sacks come from Jovan Haye who is their right DT. Green Bay was the next best and Corey Williams had 7 sacks, same as Will Smith this year. The Giants had sacks coming from everywhere but their DT had 5.5 sacks. Our starting DT Hollis Thomas only had 3 sacks.

Now there's a lot more that goes into it than this but I think a disruptive DT is an anchor to a good defense.

By the way, the best pass defenses are 3-4 teams, Steelers and Dallas.
 

saintsfan15

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i dont really agree with you that much i know where your going but we were ranked 13th on defense against the rush but 30th in the pass so we need a CB but we also do need a DT that has pass defense and can get to the QB that is where we were really bad last year but i would say we need a CB 1st round and a DT 2nd round and 3rd round
 

whodatman81

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Trevor Laws is a sound 3Tech DT we already have a big body in Hollis Thomas all we need is a decent pass rushing DT who can collapse the pocket up the middle and make the qb run into our outside rushers

We have a decent pass rushing DT in Young but decent isn't gonna get the job done. We need a game changer in the middle and Ellis and Dorsey are game changers. Do you people really think that just by signing McCray that all of the sudden we'll be able to get to the QB. We need D-line help bad and won't be able to get it in the 2nd round (Laws will not be there) so I think we need to trade up and get one of these big 2. The argument that we shouldn't trade up for a DT because of what happened with Sullivan is lame. Both of these guys have high motors and are dominant because of that and Sullivan was far from that coming out of college. There is no comparison.
 

rlemieux

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I am really interested to see what Orien Harris has in him. Really liked him coming out of Miami and think he just got picked up by the wrong teams with the wrong schemes (Pittsburgh and Cleveland who both run the 3-4). Thought coming out he was a 3-tech in the 4-3. He was a former 4th round and over his last two seasons at Miami he had 95 tackles, 20 tackles for loss 33 QB hurries and 5 sacks.

I really think he might be a great find at DT for the Saints.
 

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