Deloatch and Groce (1 Viewer)

[cruize]

Thomas is and has always been an undersized, injury-prone, average ability CB at best. Many on this board have seen him make alot of tackles and somehow translate that into him being a good CB. He makes alot of tackles by letting the WR's catch the ball in front of him in zone coverage. When he's matched up in man, he gets burnt all the time. He's a good guy that gives it all he's got. But, he's not a good NFL CB. Unfortunately for Saints fans, the CB's behind him appear not to be any better.

 

[crosswatt]

Ask any Giant fan, Deloatch is an awsome special teamer, but takes way too many risks in coverage. I said it before, Thomas got burned three times by one of the best WR/QB tandems in the game. And two of those would've never happened if Harper was still here.

 

[MackeyM]

OK, I've had about enough of all the "Put Deloatch or Craft or Groce or Clark or somebody else from the active roster in the game" threads. These guys are second stringers for a reason.

Unless you are going to each and every practice and have been there through training camp, you have no idea what the coaches see from these players.

Don't you guys think that Payton or Gibbs would have made a change if there was something they saw in practice from one of the other guys that warranted it?

The fact is, we can armchair QB it all we want, but we're are not privy to the practices. How the players perform in practice dictates who gets the starting jobs.

I'm not saying our defense doesn't need work, but they aren't the worst and they play well enough to keep our team in position to win games. With our offense, that should be enough if they stop turning the ball over.

Again, if you don't go to each practice and watch all of the game tape with the coaches, you are making uninformed suggestions. We have been given no reason not to trust the coaches decisions to this point, no reason to start now.


//rant over

 

[BoNcHiE]

I don’t understand the hating on Thomas. He has always played well…... well most of the times. If you watch the games you see it’s not his play but the def play calling. Not saying its bad just saying its wrong that times or the S doesn’t play it right and the cb gets put on a highlight on ESPN and both S do bite ALOT. And I like Bullocks but he still needs better discipline.

Thomas has not played well all year. Yes we know he has been good in the past but frankly that doesn't really matter to me much. Its all about performance now. Every week its a new excuse. This week its because Bullocks is terrible. Well no safety was gonna stop CJ from getting those TD's. Fred was never in position to make a play on the ball. He was burned about as bad as a pro corner can be burned. Hes slow, very small, and lacks the ability to play man to man. He can not cover at all anymore. Its showed all year.

Everyones getting mad for people calling for Deloache and Groce yet most of you had no problem calling for Brooks to be replaced (rightfully so). Sometimes players run their course and its time for a change, any change. There is no CB starting in the NFL that would play any worse then Thomas is playing right now. Its so bad that MM only gets 1 or 2 balls thrown to his side all game. Teams come in ready to throw all over Thomas and its killing us. Something has to give or you can say hello to another 8-8 "what the hell happened" season again.

 

[Pbody]

No the problem is our safeties have not been helping out over the top. Period. We need better safety play. Yea better CB play would help but most of the big plays have come from no safety help over the top.

I think Deloatch and Groce are better ST players but Deloatch could be a good Nickle. Of course Thomas and McKenzie are the starters and Craft the Nick so if you get some new starters next year and can't keep Thomas to move him down to Nick then they would work as 3-4 CB's But really Losing McKenzie next year and bringing in two top flight CB's(FA and DP) and moving Thomas to the nickle. with a challenge to Bullocks at FS and Harper back a SS would be great.

Stoutmier and Craft need to go.

 

[BoNcHiE]

No the problem is our safeties have not been helping out over the top. Period. We need better safety play. Yea better CB play would help but most of the big plays have come from no safety help over the top.

I think Deloatch and Groce are better ST players but Deloatch could be a good Nickle. Of course Thomas and McKenzie are the starters and Craft the Nick so if you get some new starters next year and can't keep Thomas to move him down to Nick then they would work as 3-4 CB's But really Losing McKenzie next year and bringing in two top flight CB's(FA and DP) and moving Thomas to the nickle. with a challenge to Bullocks at FS and Harper back a SS would be great.

Stoutmier and Craft need to go.

Why on earth would you want to lose Mckenzie but keep Thomas next year? We won't have the cash to bring in 2 top flight CB's. Especially considering there aren't many out there available and there will be a ton of teams bidding against us. If we want any hope of fixing our secondary we have to keep MM long term. He is a great CB.

Noone is doubting our Safeties (mainly Bullocks) aren't playing well but that doesn't change the fact that Thomas can not man up anymore. Thomas is a CB and should be able to at least stay close enough to make a play without the safety flying in over the top. Thomas isn't just getting passed on, hes getting blown by and he has no ability to play on an island. Thomas is just as much a problem as Bullocks is.

 

[Ubermoc]

Well when I watch the games I see Freddy on people vary well. The problem is his normaly slower and is smaller almost always. It’s hard for him but his doing well. His got great cover skill and awareness. He just can’t man someone because of his speed and height. Last time I checked every cb in the league needs help covering top wr. Only one that doest is Camp. MM skill is in man because his physical and over 6 foot. We can man his way if his not vs an elite wr but Thomas needs help because of his size.

What im getting at.... yes he has his weaknesses. But don’t belittle him and say he lacks skill. Because he doesn’t. He lacks size and speed. Even with the lack in speed his still vary serviceable. There are no shut down corners in the league other then the one I said so don’t expect Thomas to be one.

 

[BoNcHiE]

Well when I watch the games I see Freddy on people vary well. The problem is his normaly slower and is smaller almost always. It’s hard for him but his doing well. His got great cover skill and awareness. He just can’t man someone because of his speed and height.

Which is exactly his problem. Its almost like hes entitled to be a part of the team. If hes too small and too slow he shouldn't be starting. Its the way things go.

He can not cover man to man so he needs to go. We play a ton of man to man. Physical corners are a must. Thomas can no longer be that.

 

[oldschool]

^Umm, from what I've seen, Gibbs prefer playing alot of cover-1. 2 dbs (corner and safety) on the #1 WR. Wherever a #1 WR lines up, double him. One db on the #2. Most teams, I believe, used that for most of their coverage personnel package. They don't have their best db switching from one side of the field to another trying to cover the #1 WR, that is a myth. Rarely do I see cover-0, all man-to-man. Seems to only works if you're confident with your pass rushing, forcing QBs to look for short intermediate routes instead of deep. Pressure not in time = someone always gets open, and someone usually gets burnt. I'm willing to bet you won't be DC for long sticking with cover-0 as your base coverage, not enough Champ Bailey to go around as it is. I agree we need dbs help, but following some of your post, you have unrealistic expectations from them. Seriously, I can't think of many CBs that can cover CJ one-on-one consistently. 1 maybe?

 

[Marlboro Man]

I think that Bullocks is out of position way too much and am surprised by his lack of catch up speed.

 

[robsmith32]

Why on earth would you want to lose Mckenzie but keep Thomas next year? We won't have the cash to bring in 2 top flight CB's. Especially considering there aren't many out there available and there will be a ton of teams bidding against us. If we want any hope of fixing our secondary we have to keep MM long term. He is a great CB.

Noone is doubting our Safeties (mainly Bullocks) aren't playing well but that doesn't change the fact that Thomas can not man up anymore. Thomas is a CB and should be able to at least stay close enough to make a play without the safety flying in over the top. Thomas isn't just getting passed on, hes getting blown by and he has no ability to play on an island. Thomas is just as much a problem as Bullocks is.

reason being, it was posted here that Mckenzie told Mike Detiller, he wouldnt' be here next season, Coach wanted him out this year, but couldn't do it.
had mckenzie on list of out, and horn as needs adjustment.

I think Mckenzie needs some credit for sticking around and playing as well as he has giving that he knows they don't want him here.

 

[Farb]

Deloatch, Groce or Clark

id love for at least 2 of those to be inserted in the defense.

Yep, both CB released for a reason, and we were able to pick them up. They have not played, so ofcourse they must be better than what we have. Granted, the coaches (who watch them everyday in practice) make that call...........but what do they know.

Don't even get me started on Clark. "Oh, look, we got a couple of big runs sprang on us from the outside...............must be the ILB's fault because the ILB is the one that controls the run."

Good night princess.

 

[st. fan]

I know it looks like thomas is getting burnt a lot but I agree with previous posters, it's really more a function of how out of position our safeties are. I like bullocks, and think he will come around but he bites on playfakes way too much, and when he's supposed to have over the top coverage, it seems he's always a step too late getting there. Don't even get me started on stoutmire, he seems always to be out of position and is not a good open field tackler. He just seems to run into guys looking for the kill shot and doesn't wrap up. I've seen way too many guys run through his arm tackles. It's strange to say this about a rookie, but we are missing roman harper badly.