Demanding, Detailed, Accountable Klint Kubiak is winning over coaches and players alike (1 Viewer)

[RebSaint]

You're putting me on, you know precisely what an alpha is.

I've seen a lot of alphas, and Pete is no alpha. Some people can be an alpha and not be a jack hole, others obviously can't. Pete wasn't controlling his offense last year, the players were making a lot of mistakes that they wouldn't have made under a Payton or other strong coach. I hope KK is a lot stronger leader than Pete (who I really like and respect).

So what makes a coach or anybody else an "alpha?"

And no, players "making mistakes" doesn't mean that Pete was or is an alpha. And if Pete wasn't "controlling" the offense, who was?

It's a dumb argument that you can't prove one way or another because unless you're an expert in personalities or been around the guy enough, you're just pulling this claim out of your arse.

 

[jahsoul357]

JW would fit in an 8 old lady bridge game. He gets people for sure. If Watson slumps at all Winston will get his shot. Hopefully he’s in an anti Hero-ball offense.

From what I've read, their offense will be basically like the offense we are planning to run hear with Kubiak (Stefanski was a Gary Kubiak mentee),with Dorsey bringing in more RPO elements to accommodate Watson and the "read and react" that comes from the Erhardt-Perkins system.

It’s not hype it’s truth. Players make plays. Too much emphasis is on coaches. As great of a head coach Belichick was, he consistently proved he could not keep the shelves full. His inventory management skill was that of a kindergarten level.

When you really look, Josh McDaniels leaving is what derailed the Patriots. Belichick always kept the defense top tier and while many don’t think much of McDaniels as a head coach, that man is a heck of an offensive mind and coordinator.

Btw, Ken Dorsey didn’t even last two full seasons and he had a young talented franchise QB. So it doesn’t matter if you have a good QB or not. The job of an OC is to get your offense to produce with what you have. Example: Brian Callahan took a Jake Browning led offense (when Burrow went down) to a 4-3 record to finish the season. So let’s not give mulligans to anyone when they have a job to do. PC knew this offense like the back of his hand. So did a lot of our players. Somehow, we didn’t manage to get better. Maybe just maybe, Sneaky Pete should’ve got the axe sooner, but I get it………the axe was for chopping wood purposes

That whole Dorsey situation was weird because he was scapegoated. True enough, tape showed that the offense was sputtering due to Josh Allen missing reads all over the place (the narrative was Josh Allen had to play hero ball to make the offense work but tape review told a different story). He was fired the day after McDermott called a zero blitz and lost them the game. He did the same thing a few weeks later against the Eagles to lose them the game. They basically won out taking the ball out of Josh Allen’s hands. All around weird situation.

 

[Saint KayBee]

So what makes a coach or anybody else an "alpha?"

And no, players "making mistakes" doesn't mean that Pete was or is an alpha. And if Pete wasn't "controlling" the offense, who was?

It's a dumb argument that you can't prove one way or another because unless your an expert in personalities or been around the guy enough, you're just pulling this claim out of your arse.

Not to mention, all that "alpha" mentality stuff was debunked forever ago. The whole study is nonsense. I'm not sure why anyone even mentions it anymore.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

Agreed with that except for the word Meachem. Yes, it took two seasons to see the field for more than five minutes but he bloomed quickly in his third year and was a reliable go-route runner and blocker downfield. Plus, the freak play of the year in Washington that kept the undefeated streak going.

I didn’t mean that as in Meachem was a bad player, the emphasis was on getting instant impact players due to the scheme developing WR’s relatively quick.

There were far more instances of WRs contributing early than taking development time or busting completely. You could find relative unknowns like Joseph Morgan contributing to the offense regularly

 

[RebSaint]

I disagree to an extent.

In what way was Sean Payton ever the heart of a defense? His entire tenure here he relied on strong defensive personalities to build the culture on the other side of the ball.

In fact, Payton had his DA/Carmichael experience with Gary Gibbs. He never hired that personality type again on the defensive side of the ball.

Sure you’d like John Harbaugh or even a Jim Harbaugh or Belichik where they create a culture that encompasses the team, but those guys are rare. You’re more likely to get a good offensive or defensive mind that relies on his counterpart to build up the other side of the ball.

We tend to remember Sean Payton in this mythical way but he was no different from DA in that his success was dependent on who he chose to run his defense, and when he chose wrong the results weren’t good

I agree with this take. SP's and DA's trajectories as HC's are similar with only one big difference: wins and losses. I'm willing to be patient a bit more with DA with the understanding is that like Payton, he's struggling to field a consistent, productive offense and the right OC and QB to run it. A few posters have pointed that SP for many seasons struggled to field a competent defense, thus wasting some of DB's prime years.

I think the lack of patience with DA is attributed to his poor record as the Raiders' HC. SP was blessed with some quick success which he parlayed into extended contracts and some gravitas in the league.

The bottom line is that DA has to win more games to silence the critics.

 

[BayouSAINTJoe]

We're really trying to downplay what CSP did to boost DMeh

We're way past speculative hype...this is year 3, time to do

 

[SweetT]

From what I've read, their offense will be basically like the offense we are planning to run hear with Kubiak (Stefanski was a Gary Kubiak mentee),with Dorsey bringing in more RPO elements to accommodate Watson and the "read and react" that comes from the Erhardt-Perkins system.



When you really look, Josh McDaniels leaving is what derailed the Patriots. Belichick always kept the defense top tier and while many don’t think much of McDaniels as a head coach, that man is a heck of an offensive mind and coordinator.


That whole Dorsey situation was weird because he was scapegoated. True enough, tape showed that the offense was sputtering due to Josh Allen missing reads all over the place (the narrative was Josh Allen had to play hero ball to make the offense work but tape review told a different story). He was fired the day after McDermott called a zero blitz and lost them the game. He did the same thing a few weeks later against the Eagles to lose them the game. They basically won out taking the ball out of Josh Allen’s hands. All around weird situation.

Dorsey was a bad apple. He was also said to be a “hot head” and his antics wore thin. The cancer was removed and they got better

 

[4T L4ST]

Frustrated that I have only one Like to give to this

 

[sfidc3]

We're really trying to downplay what CSP did to boost DMeh

We're way past speculative hype...this is year 3, time to do

Yup, one coach is the best coach by far in Saints history (and yes, not perfect, he did make mistakes), the other has been IMO thus far an abject failure.....after 2 full seasons the Saints "braintrust" has replaced multiple coaches on both sides of the ball and acquired his guy at QB after his disastrous 1st season......

If they fail to make the playoffs again with what looks like a favorable schedule in what will probably be the worst division (again) in the NFL and the Saints keep DA on? They aren't serious about building a contender.....I can't see it any other way.....

 

[jahsoul357]

Dorsey was a bad apple. He was also said to be a “hot head” and his antics wore thin. The cancer was removed and they got better

They got "better" but it had nothing to do with Josh Allen. They basically ran the ball at a much higher rate while Josh Allen got worse across the board. You might be right it in being more of a case of being a hot head instead of what they did on the field.

 

[SweetT]

They got "better" but it had nothing to do with Josh Allen. They basically ran the ball at a much higher rate while Josh Allen got worse across the board. You might be right it in being more of a case of being a hot head instead of what they did on the field.

We can also point to the fact that Allen had success in the shotgun formation and Dorsey was calling a lot of plays out of play action, which to address someone saying Allen was stinking it up, that is on Dorsey for not putting his QB in a spot to be successful. That does a disservice to his QB. Plus, McDermott had 4 additional guys on his coaching staff that had prior experience calling plays. Which allowed him to make a change. We didn’t have that. You have to be prepared as a HC

 

[jahsoul357]

We can also point to the fact that Allen had success in the shotgun formation and Dorsey was calling a lot of plays out of play action, which to address someone saying Allen was stinking it up, that is on Dorsey for not putting his QB in a spot to be successful. That does a disservice to his QB. Plus, McDermott had 4 additional guys on his coaching staff that had prior experience calling plays. Which allowed him to make a change. We didn’t have that. You have to be prepared as a HC

Thing is, Allen ran play-action at a low clip. I don't think Allen was stinking it up, but if Dorsey ran a true "E-P" offense, it would be reliant on Allen making the right read pre-snap then processing post-snap. But I agree with you that the job of the OC and HC is always have your team in a position to succeed. Always.......

 

[Rexman100]

I agree with this take. SP's and DA's trajectories as HC's are similar with only one big difference: wins and losses. I'm willing to be patient a bit more with DA with the understanding is that like Payton, he's struggling to field a consistent, productive offense and the right OC and QB to run it. A few posters have pointed that SP for many seasons struggled to field a competent defense, thus wasting some of DB's prime years.

I think the lack of patience with DA is attributed to his poor record as the Raiders' HC. SP was blessed with some quick success which he parlayed into extended contracts and some gravitas in the league.

The bottom line is that DA has to win more games to silence the critics.

Lets not forget, Sean Payton demonstrated the most rare sought after quality in a coach. The ability to win games you're supposed to lose. We weren't supposed to win the Superbowl, we were supposed to put up a decent fight and be happy for years to come, that we at least made it, to the final game. Instead, we came out desperate and determined to win that game at all costs. On side kick in the Superbowl, really? Really? As a result we stole that game. We all knew this, but no one pointed it out. That's why we held onto Sean so long. Because he has that rare quality of being hyper competitive / aggressive / desperate / starving / will cheat if he can get away with it/ him against the world.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

Lets not forget, Sean Payton demonstrated the most rare sought after quality in a coach. The ability to win games you're supposed to lose. We weren't supposed to win the Superbowl, we were supposed to put up a decent fight and be happy for years to come, that we at least made it, to the final game. Instead, we came out desperate and determined to win that game at all costs. On side kick in the Superbowl, really? Really? As a result we stole that game. We all knew this, but no one pointed it out. That's why we held onto Sean so long. Because he has that rare quality of being hyper competitive / aggressive / desperate / starving / will cheat if he can get away with it/ him against the world.

I mean I don't know about rare and sought after, I think it's a good thing to be competitive and balsy as a coach but there are plenty of "winning SB" coaches who were none of those things out front like Tony Dungy who fielded competitive teams.

Having a good QB aids in coaches winning. Payton found his in Drew, DA hasn't found one and it's made his career a bit more tough to date. Carr is on the cusp of proving he can be that guy.

 

[jahsoul357]

I mean I don't know about rare and sought after, I think it's a good thing to be competitive and balsy as a coach but there are plenty of "winning SB" coaches who were none of those things out front like Tony Dungy who fielded competitive teams.

Having a good QB aids in coaches winning. Payton found his in Drew, DA hasn't found one and it's made his career a bit more tough to date. Carr is on the cusp of proving he can be that guy.

For everything that we think about these 2, we were 9-3 with Winston and Hill fielding weapons worst than what we’ve seen in years. If we had good coaching in 2022, we easily win the NFC South. Crap, if Winston or Taysom don’t get hurt, we probably fighting the 13 win Bucs for the division. Saying DA just needed a QB ignores what we did the year before with less talent all-around.