Dennis Allen's defense (1 Viewer)

[mc4saints]

Gonna disagree with you on this one. Doesn't mean I'm right though. I just read that Minny had the ball nearly 40 minutes versus our 21. Our defense held the Vikes with healthy Theilen and Diggs to 20 points over 40 minutes. That's superb defense. And also lets me know that our defense was gassed in the OT. They already played a game and half before the OT

Agreed. If we somehow win this game, there are 17 threads praising this defense overall. They played incredible based on the positions the offense put them in consistently! MN had at least 3 extra possessions because of the offense. MN was the 6th ranked offense in the league even though they had been playing without a healthy Cooks and Thielen. In 4 quarters, Cousins had less than 200 yards passing and Cook had less than 100 yds rushing after having over 90 at halftime.

Sure there were a few defensive lapses but if the offense is just 65% as good as it has been the last 3 weeks of the season, MN gets 10 points at best. I can show you coverage lapses on the '85 Bears.

Also, let Saints get Davenport, Rankins, and Anzalone back next season and see the improvement. Sure, you can find problems with DA's defense here and there but saying anything negative about the defense yesterday based on the positions the offense put them in is ridiculous IMO.

 

[UltraSaints]

I don’t trust our D in big moments at all. We have been decent at times, but overall not great. We suck in key late game situations. I don’t think this will change under DA. I’d bring in Wade Phillips.

 

[UltraSaints]

Agreed. If we somehow win this game, there are 17 threads praising this defense overall. They played incredible based on the positions the offense put them in consistently! MN had at least 3 extra possessions because of the offense. MN was the 6th ranked offense in the league even though they had been playing without a healthy Cooks and Thielen. In 4 quarters, Cousins had less than 200 yards passing and Cook had less than 100 yds rushing after having over 90 at halftime.

Sure there were a few defensive lapses but if the offense is just 65% as good as it has been the last 3 weeks of the season, MN gets 10 points at best. I can show you coverage lapses on the '85 Bears.

Also, let Saints get Davenport, Rankins, and Anzalone back next season and see the improvement. Sure, you can find problems with DA's defense here and there but saying anything negative about the defense yesterday based on the positions the offense put them in is ridiculous IMO.

Yes the offense sucked. But at the end of the day, the Vikings won the toss and we had to rely on our Defense. Then once again, just like they have many times, including right at the start of the season against Houston, the opposing teams marches down the field in a few plays and score. The only difference then is the offense managed to bail the Defense out. This time it was score to win. The Defense failed miserably again as they do in big late situations. We’ve seen it for years.

 

[lexj662]

It is in the biggest situations the defense fails us time after time after time. Houston game- offense scored when they HAD to to take lead with under a minute left. In 2 plays, TWO, they go 75 yds and we’re behind again. Offense then scores when they HAD to to win game. San Fran game- offense again scores late when they HAD to to take lead with under 2 mins left. SF goes right down the field including the lamest attempt I’ve ever seen at 3 guys trying to tackle 1 guy, SF wins. Playoffs- offense plays like crap for 59 minutes, but scores at end when it HAD to to tie game. Minnesota goes right down the field (incl 2 3rd down conversions)in ot to end our season.
That’s just this year- think back 3 years and count how many times d has given up the lead late in the game in big moments. As soon as we lost the coin toss Sunday I knew we were cooked. Somethings gotta give.

 

[mc4saints]

Yes the offense sucked. But at the end of the day, the Vikings won the toss and we had to rely on our Defense. Then once again, just like they have many times, including right at the start of the season against Houston, the opposing teams marches down the field in a few plays and score. The only difference then is the offense managed to bail the Defense out. This time it was score to win. The Defense failed miserably again as they do in big late situations. We’ve seen it for years.

Cool. Now give me the list of how Payton's offense, play calling, and time management failed us yesterday. The defense was flat out worn out and cousins threw the perfect pass that P Rob missed by inches. I honestly would be less shocked if people were calling for Payton's head today instead of DA's. Calling for either is just silly.

 

[SigFreudianSlip]

Yes the offense sucked. But at the end of the day, the Vikings won the toss and we had to rely on our Defense. Then once again, just like they have many times, including right at the start of the season against Houston, the opposing teams marches down the field in a few plays and score. The only difference then is the offense managed to bail the Defense out. This time it was score to win. The Defense failed miserably again as they do in big late situations. We’ve seen it for years.

I’ve said before..I think it’s in their heads now it’s happened so much and for so long. They expect to fail in those situations.

 

[Saint Kamara]

You let Case Keenum beat Drew Brees.

You let Kirk Cousins do something he hasn't done his entire career. Beat an elite team.

That's disgusting.

He needs to go.

 

[Taker597]

Yes the offense sucked. But at the end of the day, the Vikings won the toss and we had to rely on our Defense. Then once again, just like they have many times, including right at the start of the season against Houston, the opposing teams marches down the field in a few plays and score. The only difference then is the offense managed to bail the Defense out. This time it was score to win. The Defense failed miserably again as they do in big late situations. We’ve seen it for years.

IDK... this year is a little different. Take out 6 offensive starters and see if they score a TD on the opening drive.

Granted... The whole choking games away thing is VERY OLD. Yet, Our offense choked in OT last year. This year... Defense was hung out to dry.

 

[SweetT]

You let Case Keenum beat Drew Brees.

You let Kirk Cousins do something he hasn't done his entire career. Beat an elite team.

That's disgusting.

He needs to go.

Letting inept QBs beat us has always been a thing with our team. It’s highly confusing

 

[SpeckKillerII]

I haven't looked at the stats, but my impression from watching the season (and from last year too) is that our defense is mostly solid on 1st & 2nd down. On 3rd down, particularly when the offensive play call should be pretty predictable, we poop the bed. It doesn't matter if it's 3rd and 3 or 3rd and 30....it feels like opposing offenses have just as good a shot at getting off a long throw for 40 yards as they do picking up 2 for a 1st down. And when they do manage to hold, 5 times out of 10 there will be a flag flying in to save the day.

You and I are definitely seeing the same things. They are decent but in the last minute or seconds of the game they fail repeatedly. The Lynch run, the Davis catch and run, the Diggs play, and finally the Rudolph catch. I know that all of these are not DA defenses but all the same they are Saints meltdowns in the last seconds or minutes of the game. I also put the Brees INT in the NFCCG in the same group. Final minutes of the game and for one reason or another we can’t make the play. We have to find a way to fix these meltdowns at the end of the game.

 

[MJ in Calif]

I agree in theory, but after years of the Saints having horrible big play defense (they were 20th in pass defense and the last I saw bottom 3 in plays of 20+ yards) this is who the Saints defense will be under Dennis Allen.

If he was capable of fixing it, he would have by now. The biggest thing I see is that our linebackers and defensive line seem to improve over time, while every single DB we have (except maybe Von Bell) have regressed over multiple seasons. CJGJ looked good for the second half of his first season, but so have other players we’ve had that all seem to start to slump in the latter half of their 2nd year and into their 3rd.

To me, the issue with defense goes back prior to DA. Going back to when Payton was 1st coaching the Saints, we saw the defense fail numerous times when they were counted on the most to step up and make a stop. It doesn't matter who is DC. We've seen it time and again. Example ofter example of it happening. A big part of it is personnel and drafting. As an example, the FS position has been an ongoing problem. It got fixed when Sharper was back there, and it was not bad when Jenkins was back there. But Payton lets Jenkins walk and signs Byrd, which was a disaster.

I know I'm going catch some criticism here, but I just do not believe that Marcus Williams is the answer to the FS position. You want the FS to be your ballhawk, but he is rarely in position, misses tackle, and looks foolish when he is in position. They have to move on from that guy and get someone back there who can play that position. Ditto for other secondary guys like PJ Williams and Eli Apple. I still believe that if PJ Williams would have turned to play the ball on that last TD, he would have drawn a PI call plus could have properly defended the ball.

Seeing that time and time again from Saints DBs is maddening. Especially when you look at freshman at the collegiate level, like LSU's Stingley, who show these skills at 18 years old, but guys playing at the pro level continue to play the receiver and not the ball.

I digress. Just me rambling.

 

[Pkessling]

I agree. But you can't give up a 45 yard bomb in OT with the game on the line with Williams once against being late to the play. If Williams isn't capable, stop playing single high.

In the macro sense, the defense is fine, which is why I'm all for keeping Allen. In the micro sense, these deep ball breakdowns in crunch time have to stop.

Great observation, Williams was playing single high safety. He is much better when they play 2 deep, but DA had Bell playing up to defend the run.

 

[Pkessling]

It is in the biggest situations the defense fails us time after time after time. Houston game- offense scored when they HAD to to take lead with under a minute left. In 2 plays, TWO, they go 75 yds and we’re behind again. Offense then scores when they HAD to to win game. San Fran game- offense again scores late when they HAD to to take lead with under 2 mins left. SF goes right down the field including the lamest attempt I’ve ever seen at 3 guys trying to tackle 1 guy, SF wins. Playoffs- offense plays like crap for 59 minutes, but scores at end when it HAD to to tie game. Minnesota goes right down the field (incl 2 3rd down conversions)in ot to end our season.
That’s just this year- think back 3 years and count how many times d has given up the lead late in the game in big moments. As soon as we lost the coin toss Sunday I knew we were cooked. Somethings gotta give.

Been that way 3 years in a row. Defense cannot preserve a lead with less then 1:30 to go.

 

[Pkessling]

IDK... this year is a little different. Take out 6 offensive starters and see if they score a TD on the opening drive.

Granted... The whole choking games away thing is VERY OLD. Yet, Our offense choked in OT last year. This year... Defense was hung out to dry.

The defense choked in the last minute last year against the Rams. The offense took the lead with less then a minute to go. Rams went down the field in 3 plays with no timeouts and kicked a FG that sent it to overtime. OT should never have happened, Even with the horrible no call PI, we still should have won if not for a defensive failure.

 

[Taker597]

The defense choked in the last minute last year against the Rams. The offense took the lead with less then a minute to go. Rams went down the field in 3 plays with no timeouts and kicked a FG that sent it to overtime. OT should never have happened, Even with the horrible no call PI, we still should have won if not for a defensive failure.

You can say that but we got the defacto first possession in overtime.

Both the offense and defense choked on btb drives

MM 100% on defense. The last two year isn't as black and white