denver def co. (1 Viewer)

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It wasn't jim bates that made their defense suck... Jim Bates is a pretty good defensive coach when he has the personnel... he used to be Miami's DC, and then interem HC... the players wanted him to stay on as HC, but Wayne Hyz(sp?) hired the Sabanator.

Denver had tiny DTs, and even smallerer DEs... which explains their problems against the run. They were 7th against the pass (linkage), but 30th against the run (linkage).

Bates was not the problem... Denver spent a chunk of change on offense, and only gave the defense Dre Bly. They also missed Al Wilson BIG TIME.

The whole discussion is moot anyway unless Gobbs takes a position with another team... Payton is that loyal... but I wouldn't mind seeing jim Bates coordinate our defense because he's pretty aggressive... when given the weapons...
 
With his experience as a coordinator it would be nice to have him on the staff as a position coach to help Gibbs with game planning but he will probably be picked up by someone else in a DC position.

He did very well in Miami with the players so he knows how to be a good coordinator but as Droopy said Payton is loyal and Gibbs isn't going anywhere.
 
Like you, I think we need a new Defensive Coordinator. We're going to be adding a lot of new starters and backups to that side of the ball. I'm hoping that Sean is talking a good hard look at the ENTIRE defense from both a player and coaching standpoint.

I'm sure he can see with the talent that will carry over to next year, what scheme is going to fit best with the least amount of new talent needed to put our defense into the top half of the NFL next year. With all that change, I wish I could be a fly on the wall right now and hear what he's thinking.

Is he thinking it is a lack of talent? Is he thinking..."with all this change, should I go out and look for a new D coordinator since so much needs to change??" With those thoughts, Payton is going to look for someone that he can work with. Gibbs fit that mold and I think that is what he wants more than anything else....someone he can trust and work along side of. I don't see Denver's guy being "that" guy. He had a wealth of talent and considering what they had...they stunk! They should have been a top 10 defense and were NOWHERE close. That too me is not good coaching. Not to come to Gibbs defense, but were horrible and our talent matched that. One above average LB, one good corner, two quality DE's that got no pressure all year, and the rest is made up of castoffs and average at best players (Shanle, Simmoneau, David, KK, etc.).

I would look for someone in his past that he's worked with to the majority of the pool of talent he looks to acquire....if he goes this route. I'm speaking mainly on the coaching end. Someone who has a knack for turning things around, the players rally around, will stick by Payton's side and most of all....follow Payton's thinking or be in sync with his way of coaching. That shoud give us a good idea of who he would target. And honestly, for the life of me....I can't think of anyone that fits that mold aside from Gibbs at the moment. If anyone else can, please chime in and voice your opinion. I think either of the Ryan's would be awesome, but could they work with Payton? Are they "his" type of coaches? Your thoughts?
 
Saint Droopy said:
It wasn't jim bates that made their defense suck... Jim Bates is a pretty good defensive coach when he has the personnel... he used to be Miami's DC, and then interem HC... the players wanted him to stay on as HC, but Wayne Hyz(sp?) hired the Sabanator.

Denver had tiny DTs, and even smallerer DEs... which explains their problems against the run. They were 7th against the pass (linkage), but 30th against the run (linkage).

Bates was not the problem... Denver spent a chunk of change on offense, and only gave the defense Dre Bly. They also missed Al Wilson BIG TIME.

The whole discussion is moot anyway unless Gobbs takes a position with another team... Payton is that loyal... but I wouldn't mind seeing jim Bates coordinate our defense because he's pretty aggressive... when given the weapons...
Click to expand...


thats actually not true Shannahan basically spent his entire draft on defense and on guys requested by jim bates - Jarvis Moss, Tim Crowder, Marcus Thomas, in fact their whole draft was defense minus Ryan Harris from Notre Dame. Not to mention they were hugelly going after the defensive free agents and were neck and neck with Seattle for Patrick Kerney, when that didnt work they still brought in Simeon Rice to try and compete.


Jim Bates scheme(at least in Denver) was a scheme were you push the DEs out further as pass rushers, use the DTs as cloggers and funnel the runner to the linebackers while playing a strict man to man cover scheme. For the period Denver strictlly followed Bates' system(up until the Pitsburgh game) Denver didn't blitz much and played mostlly a base defense. Bates relys a lot on the talent to make it work, Denver didnt have the linebackers to stop the run, the DTs to clog the middle and minus Dummerville they didnt have the Ends to rush the passer. I don't know if in New orleans he could bring much improvement either, I think for his scheme we definatelly would need a lot more personel changes especially at linebacker.(not that we dont already)

I guess my big problem with Bates was he wasnt adaptable, He wants thngs to fit his way and he runs the scheme hes created, he doesnt adapt and do what is best with what he has and I think thats why he basically lost his duties half way through the season. I think he would be great as a linebackers, Defensive line coach but I don't see him not taking another DC job somewhere, where he could probably have the talent to run his scheme properly. Still after his stint in Denver i'm not sure his scheme is all that great.

Edit: I just think Bates has shown he is the kinda guy you can bring in if you have a lot of the right kind of talent in the defensive line and linebacker position, when and if you have that talent he can run a prety successful scheme. Personally after watching both teams I would keeo Gibbs over him this year and just focus like Denver did last year and give Gibbs some better talent to work with.
 
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Brees4prez said:
Yeah i understand stats are skewed but after watching all of their televised games i can say that they got beat deep about as much as we did.
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They did and that was because they almost consistently ran 8 in the box, John Lynch basically played linebacker this season. Champ also basically had to keep on eye on the runners because Denver was so poor at stopping the run the DBs were overcompensating so much. Its sad when Champ Bailey was given the best rating for tackling skills, even above Denver's linebackers and that in many games Lynch and Champ had more tackles than the linebackers.
 
I think that Gibbs is safe this year but if I was looking I would pick one of the Ryan boys or Ron Rivera.
 
chad_moore said:
Like you, I think we need a new Defensive Coordinator. We're going to be adding a lot of new starters and backups to that side of the ball. I'm hoping that Sean is talking a good hard look at the ENTIRE defense from both a player and coaching standpoint.

I'm sure he can see with the talent that will carry over to next year, what scheme is going to fit best with the least amount of new talent needed to put our defense into the top half of the NFL next year. With all that change, I wish I could be a fly on the wall right now and hear what he's thinking.

Is he thinking it is a lack of talent? Is he thinking..."with all this change, should I go out and look for a new D coordinator since so much needs to change??" With those thoughts, Payton is going to look for someone that he can work with. Gibbs fit that mold and I think that is what he wants more than anything else....someone he can trust and work along side of. I don't see Denver's guy being "that" guy. He had a wealth of talent and considering what they had...they stunk! They should have been a top 10 defense and were NOWHERE close. That too me is not good coaching. Not to come to Gibbs defense, but were horrible and our talent matched that. One above average LB, one good corner, two quality DE's that got no pressure all year, and the rest is made up of castoffs and average at best players (Shanle, Simmoneau, David, KK, etc.).

I would look for someone in his past that he's worked with to the majority of the pool of talent he looks to acquire....if he goes this route. I'm speaking mainly on the coaching end. Someone who has a knack for turning things around, the players rally around, will stick by Payton's side and most of all....follow Payton's thinking or be in sync with his way of coaching. That shoud give us a good idea of who he would target. And honestly, for the life of me....I can't think of anyone that fits that mold aside from Gibbs at the moment. If anyone else can, please chime in and voice your opinion. I think either of the Ryan's would be awesome, but could they work with Payton? Are they "his" type of coaches? Your thoughts?
Click to expand...

i agree i say lets get em
 
nope, bates, isn't in my wishlist, same scheme, with same probs we already have.. NO THANKS!!!!

Now if Fox is let go, or can be talked into joining back up with payton.. yeppers, in a heartbeat. IF Rex or Rob Ryan, yep in a new york second.
 

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