Derek Carr world tour thread (updated with combine visits) (1 Viewer)

[Saint Spud]

Why does he have to pick who he “would like to get”?

Having strong opinions, as you do, is nice and all, but it’s just your opinion that Carr is the only smart choice.

Just like it’s only your opinion that it is weird, dumb, stupid or wrong to think the Jets might be more attractive to him than NO.

Here is another opinion:

The Saints have an historically bad HC that is most likely not going to get better at it.

The Saints have a roster that still has talent, but also the kinds of major holes and money tied up in descending players that make the idea of paying $40 mil a year for a QB1 that is in the front end of the middle of the pack (compared to his peers) a bad move.

Rather than sink a huge amount of the current and future cap into that contract and the restructuring of descending player contracts needed to do it (which will likely garner more time for DA, even if next year is similar or worse than 2022); it would be better to sign an affordable bridge QB that fits (I would shoot for Teddy B). And use the draft and saved cap space to strengthen the current roster holes.

If Allen fails, which I predict he will, then the new HC can have the biggest role in upgrading the QB spot.

And to be clear I am not rooting for failure for Allen or whoever plays QB. And I live in reality, meaning I know he will be HC for at least 2023z

I still see the failure swirling around Allen though and while I hope he improves I would never bet on that. Instead I would short-sell (hedge) in anticipation of what is coming.

A lot to unpack here.

First, the Carr point is that he’s the best available player at the most important position in the game. And we need to upgrade. I asked who would be better, given the circumstances.

Secondly, you can say all you want that you don’t want Allen or the Saints to fail. But if you’re advocating doing something other than getting the best QB possible, you are selling short their chances. Again, that’s the point.

And finally, it’s been pointed out over and over that “bottoming out” is far from the best option wrt turning around a team. In fact, as much as people don’t want to acknowledge it, there’s likely a better chance of Allen “figuring it out” than there is if the franchise bottoming out and magically finding the right combo of coach and QB later.

 

[Judge_Smails]

A lot to unpack here.

First, the Carr point is that he’s the best available player at the most important position in the game. And we need to upgrade. I asked who would be better, given the circumstances.

Secondly, you can say all you want that you don’t want Allen or the Saints to fail. But if you’re advocating doing something other than getting the best QB possible, you are selling short their chances. Again, that’s the point.

And finally, it’s been pointed out over and over that “bottoming out” is far from the best option wrt turning around a team. In fact, as much as people don’t want to acknowledge it, there’s likely a better chance of Allen “figuring it out” than there is if the franchise bottoming out and magically finding the right combo of coach and QB later.

I never said anything about bottoming out. I don’t have to wait for my old house to fall apart before fixing it or buying:building a new one.

And getting a mediocre QB for $40 mil, even if he is the “best available “ in your opinion, is not selling the Saints short or hoping for failure.

Instead, refusing to overpay for at best mediocrity at the expense of a possible, better future, is imho, the smart move.

The Saints can just as likely go 9-8, 8-9, or 7-10with Teddy B. or another under $20 mil per year QB. And it’s still just as likely that even with Carr, the Saints still have a worse record in 2023 than in 2022.

Last year the sharps predicted the Saints to be just under .500 and they were right. Even with Carr , I bet they place the under at or below last years. So why destroy your cap for a guy in the upper range of mediocre when you have an HC and OC problem, cap problems, and holes on DL, RB, OL, WR?

 

[sammymvpknight]

What? He had a very good year in 2021.

QBR - 94
Yards - 4,804
TDs - 23
Ints - 14
Completion % - 68.4

The Raiders had a horrific OL that year which resulted in him being sacked 40 times and no doubt hurt his QBR.

Sacks are a QB stat. Brees averaged 22 sacks per season over the course of his entire career (including San Diego), and was only sacked more than 30 times twice

 

[BayouSAINTJoe]

I never said anything about bottoming out. I don’t have to wait for my old house to fall apart before fixing it or buying:building a new one.

And getting a mediocre QB for $40 mil, even if he is the “best available “ in your opinion, is not selling the Saints short or hoping for failure.

Instead, refusing to overpay for at best mediocrity at the expense of a possible, better future, is imho, the smart move.

The Saints can just as likely go 9-8, 8-9, or 7-10with Teddy B. or another under $20 mil per year QB. And it’s still just as likely that even with Carr, the Saints still have a worse record in 2023 than in 2022.

Last year the sharps predicted the Saints to be just under .500 and they were right. Even with Carr , I bet they place the under at or below last years. So why destroy your cap for a guy in the upper range of mediocre when you have an HC and OC problem, cap problems, and holes on DL, RB, OL, WR?

And you also have the inside track to the guy who had the 2nd best QBR Last season (Dalton) for 1/8th of the price.

Unless those Dalton numbers were BS and we're all just going to pretend that we didn't boast about those numbers as a justification to keep him in

Maybe I'm the only one who finds that funny

 

[DaveXA]

Sacks are a QB stat. Brees averaged 22 sacks per season over the course of his entire career (including San Diego), and was only sacked more than 30 times twice

I didn't say it wasn't. Carr also was sacked more than 31 times twice in 8 seasons. So that 40 is an outlier.

 

[Saint Spud]

I never said anything about bottoming out. I don’t have to wait for my old house to fall apart before fixing it or buying:building a new one.

And getting a mediocre QB for $40 mil, even if he is the “best available “ in your opinion, is not selling the Saints short or hoping for failure.

Instead, refusing to overpay for at best mediocrity at the expense of a possible, better future, is imho, the smart move.

The Saints can just as likely go 9-8, 8-9, or 7-10with Teddy B. or another under $20 mil per year QB. And it’s still just as likely that even with Carr, the Saints still have a worse record in 2023 than in 2022.

Last year the sharps predicted the Saints to be just under .500 and they were right. Even with Carr , I bet they place the under at or below last years. So why destroy your cap for a guy in the upper range of mediocre when you have an HC and OC problem, cap problems, and holes on DL, RB, OL, WR?

It’s not overpaying. It’s literally the going rate for a QB in that tier.

And if you’re not advocating bottoming out, what are you advocating? You either pay for a QB in that tier, pay $20 million for a borderline starter, or pay Andy Dalton money for…Andy Dalton.

 

[sfidc3]

And you also have the inside track to the guy who had the 2nd best QBR Last season (Dalton) for 1/8th of the price.

Unless those Dalton numbers were BS and we're all just going to pretend that we didn't boast about those numbers as a justification to keep him in

Maybe I'm the only one who finds that funny

I don't find it funny, I find it illogical, not sane.....to totally absolve the QB in an offense that can't score points? Insanity, and there are plenty of folks on that bandwagon....

Judge's posts are making too much sense....

 

[Saint Spud]

And you also have the inside track to the guy who had the 2nd best QBR Last season (Dalton) for 1/8th of the price.

Unless those Dalton numbers were BS and we're all just going to pretend that we didn't boast about those numbers as a justification to keep him in

Maybe I'm the only one who finds that funny

There’s a big difference between pointing out those numbers to justify him remaining the starter over Jameis vs pointing out the numbers to try to claim he’s the best option available for this team in the offseason.

 

[BayouSAINTJoe]

There’s a big difference between pointing out those numbers to justify him remaining the starter over Jameis vs pointing out the numbers to try to claim he’s the best option available for this team in the offseason.

But if the numbers being better than Jameis is grounds for keeping him vs Jameis, shouldn't the same be applicable for keeping him over Carr who also had a worse QBR?

 

[saintsmarchin]

He was terrible last season too. So, let's see if he improves this season. Carr had very similar numbers over his first 5 seasons compared to Watson. Both played on mostly subpar teams with good offenses and poor defenses. So Watson hasn't exactly outperformed Carr by much, if at all. The main difference is Watson can score with his feet. Carr can, but that's not where he shines.

Carr - 5 seasons from 2018 - 2022

QBR - 97.1
Yards - 20,532
TDs - 120
Ints - 55
Completion % - 65%

Watson - first 5 seasons - 2017 - 2022 (didn't play in 2021 and played nearly a seaon of games less due to injury and suspension)

QBR - 103.3
Yards - 15,641
TDs - 111
Ints - 41
Completion % - 67%

Dhop with Watson inflated those stats for Watson.


The main difference is Carr is one kf the best in the league in 4th quarter come backs and how many games did we lose at the end?

 

[SAINTSFAN]

Dhop with Watson inflated those stats for Watson.

So every good WR inflates a QB stats? That is disingenuous to select one QB and make that claim.

 

[saintsmarchin]

Sacks are a QB stat. Brees averaged 22 sacks per season over the course of his entire career (including San Diego), and was only sacked more than 30 times twice

Brees has had amazing olines.



Guys it's literally the Raiders.. that would be like if Brady decided to go to the Falcons..instead of Bucs.. you think Falcons would've won a superbowl?

If Carr is near Watson #s then yeah he's definitely worth and literally the 4th quarter come backs are off the charts.


We would be insane to not match and take carr.

 

[Saint Spud]

But if the numbers being better than Jameis is grounds for keeping him vs Jameis, shouldn't the same be applicable for keeping him over Carr who also had a worse QBR?

No. Because Carr wasn’t in our building running our offense.

The whole idea here is that you have a QB who ran a version of our offense very well. Then a new coach came in and his skills didn’t mesh with the new coach and system.

Edit; QBR is also a different stat entirely. And even in those PFF grades, no one was objectively trying to argue they proved Dalton was on the same level as some of the players close to him in those rankings like Mahomes, Allen, etc.

There are levels to all of this.

 

[DaveXA]

Dhop with Watson inflated those stats for Watson.


The main difference is Carr is one kf the best in the league in 4th quarter come backs and how many games did we lose at the end?

Having Hopkins sure helped. But I wouldn't say his numbers were great just because of DHop.

But yeah, Carr has clutched a lot of games with 4th quarter heroics. And I think it's not shocking it went away when McDaniels took over. McDaniels has been a disaster so far for the Raiders, lol. He totally mishandled Carr last season.

 

[saintsmarchin]

Carr was the Raiders’ QB for nine consecutive seasons and, during that time, became the team’s all-time passing leader with a total of 35,222 yards and 217 touchdowns.

Drew threw like 31 to 34 thousand at 202 Td first 9 years

Brees had SP for a large extent of that....so come on... open your eyes Carr is going to blow up in the right system