Derek Carr world tour thread (updated with combine visits) (2 Viewers)

[DaveXA]

Yet, had a few breaks that went their way, instead end up going the opposite way, means they could have also easily been 5-12. If that is how it works, Atlanta could have easily been 9-8. Carolina could have easily 9-8. MN could have been13-4 or 6-10, KC could have easily been 15-2 or 10-7.

This is why Parcells didn’t traffic in the kind of rationalization you are leaning towards.

I'm not rationalizing anything. Just thinking about how close the team was to getting it done. This isn't isn't an argument for or against anything. More like simply thinking out loud. Of course it could have gone a lot of other ways. I would say we're close enough to not need to blow the team up. Just need to improve in some key spots to get over to the winning side enough to be a playoff contender.

 

[EGLSShin]

So Carr wants 35mil + according to the Espn reporter. This tells me that thus far, he's been offered deals below 35mil. Maybe if you're the Saints, you do a below 35mil deal with incentives that take him north of 35mil. I just have a sneaking suspicion that unless he gets some crazy ridiculous deal from a 3rd team, his market is gonna settle between 30-35mil.

 

[Rouxble]

So Carr wants 35mil + according to the Espn reporter. This tells me that thus far, he's been offered deals below 35mil. Maybe if you're the Saints, you do a below 35mil deal with incentives that take him north of 35mil. I just have a sneaking suspicion that unless he gets some crazy ridiculous deal from a 3rd team, his market is gonna settle between 30-35mil.

I like the thought process, the only problem with incentives is that a veteran like Carr will probably want LTBE incentives, which will complicate our ability to fit him under the cap. Better to just give him a few more bucks in a signing bonus to keep more space.

 

[JackDiesel]

You ever have someone you really don't care about get ready to do something stupid and you tell them "you should go ahead and do that?"...just to see how bad it turns out for them? That's what they're doing by pushing Carr to NOLA. What do we have that makes us a perfect fit?

• An amazing offensive system? Nope
• A stable coaching staff? Nope (we're a 1-4 start away from having an interim HC for 12 games)
• Supporting cast? Kamara suspended 4-6 games, No MT, maybe a good TE in JJ (if he doesn't regress), a "Project" at LT
• Exposure? Nah

So to me, if it sounds like , smells like ...then it's probably . They want to bury Carr in NOLA so that NY can draft another QB and talk him up as the next big market darling. Nobody in big media tries to send anything of worth to us...they always try to steer it or take it away, so when they try to send it our way, its for a reason.

Offense system was likely hampered by a bad QB. Honestly I don't know how you design an offense to be successful with Andy Dalton at the helm. He doesn't have the arm to pass it deep accurately, he won't throw to a WR that isn't wide open, he hits a check down early on 3rd and long, and he's like a statue in the pocket.

Loomis won't fire Allen halfway through the season. Loomis is doing everything he can to help Allen be successful. If he's not then oh well and Carr gets a better coaching staff. He has as much job security as Saleh.

Just going to conviniently leave out Olave and Shaheed? Two WR's that match up perfectly to Carr. Kamara's 6 game suspension is nothing when you're signing a 3-4 year contract. The "project" LT is better than any tackle the Jets currently have.

 

[sfidc3]

First of all, I don't really have any faith in DA , I have some in PC. Depends on what you call meaningful. If we get Carr, stay fairly healthy and pick up a couple of pieces then I think we go 11-6. That almost surely wins the division. Even if the NFCS was not as weak that would put us in the wildcard game. I guess the only meaningful for you is the SB

You couldn't be more wrong....getting to the SB is incredibly difficult even with a great coach and QB....we only got there once. Meaningful to me is making the playoffs.....period....then you at least have a chance.

You state you don't have any faith in DA and then proceed to say that we add Carr and some other personnel and we go 11-6.....right.....WTF?

Never say never but the chances of going 11-6 with DA at the helm? Slim...IMO

 

[No2DC]

I like the thought process, the only problem with incentives is that a veteran like Carr will probably want LTBE incentives, which will complicate our ability to fit him under the cap. Better to just give him a few more bucks in a signing bonus to keep more space.

A few more bucks will cause a riot on this board. People forget Kirk cousins has consistently been one of the highest paid QBs even though he's a mid-tier guy that always flops in big games.

 

[Hedon James]

A few more bucks will cause a riot on this board. People forget Kirk cousins has consistently been one of the highest paid QBs even though he's a mid-tier guy that always flops in big games.

No2DC brings up a good point, that is especially relevant, IMO.

I think the main crux of the discussion in this thread revolves around your statement. I think most of us like the idea of DC4 in black & gold....but at the right price. NO ONE wants the Kirk Cousins situation you described. And most of us think (hope?!) this will be DAs last season as HC. IF that comes to fruition, we don't want our Saints to be tethered to a Cousins-like situation....position could use an upgrade, but salary prevents the upgrade from happening. That is the WORST position to be in. It's one thing for a player to bust, and you move on. It's another thing when the player busts, but you have to keep him because you can't afford to cut him. There's an opportunity to improve with the former; you're stuck in purgatory with the latter.

 

[DavidM]

So Carr wants 35mil + according to the Espn reporter. This tells me that thus far, he's been offered deals below 35mil. Maybe if you're the Saints, you do a below 35mil deal with incentives that take him north of 35mil. I just have a sneaking suspicion that unless he gets some crazy ridiculous deal from a 3rd team, his market is gonna settle between 30-35mil.

In a regular free agency period, I’d agree with you. Get the numbers you’re looking for, like the situation, take the offer. But this is a unique situation where Carr isn’t competing against another QB right now. It’s possible the teams he’s met with have come in under his expectations, it’s also possible that the contract talks are in range but he wants to take his time, feel certain about his decision, and potentially max his value. There’s no rush for him to decide and we really don’t know what the parties are thinking and what is taking place in negotiations.

 

[nakadish]

Never say never but the chances of going 11-6 with DA at the helm? Slim...IMO

Why? Do you expect the defense to take a step back?

If the Saints only do two things in the draft - pick up a good X and a good RB in the middle rounds, they will have a pretty solid offense outside of the QB. They will have the best WR room since Colston, Moore and Henderson. And, I would argue better if they can find a way to keep MT. The new TE coach was a home run hire. I expect even more production from the TEs this year. Penning is a good run blocker. If they pick up a good RB in the draft, they should be good enough in the run game to weather Kamara being out for 6 games.

If the defense can play at the level they did at the end of the season and with more weapons besides Kamara and Hill on offense, why can't they win 11 games?

 

[sfidc3]

Why? Do you expect the defense to take a step back?

If the Saints only do two things in the draft - pick up a good X and a good RB in the middle rounds, they will have a pretty solid offense outside of the QB. They will have the best WR room since Colston, Moore and Henderson. And, I would argue better if they can find a way to keep MT. The new TE coach was a home run hire. I expect even more production from the TEs this year. Penning is a good run blocker. If they pick up a good RB in the draft, they should be good enough in the run game to weather Kamara being out for 6 games.

If the defense can play at the level they did at the end of the season and with more weapons besides Kamara and Hill on offense, why can't they win 11 games?

I will agree that the Saints roster if completely healthy is still a pretty good roster. But a roster on paper, alone does not get you to 11 wins.....you also need good competent coaching/leadership and a sense of accountability.

Yet the same coaching staff that was an abject disaster last year is back, what convinces you that things will get any better? I mean the Carolina loss was a microcosm of what stunk the entire 2nd half of the season, an inability to score points, how is that magically going to change?

 

[sfidc3]

So you changed the conversation to make it about lack of trust in the coaching staff.

What a novel concept that hasn’t been discussed yet on this board.

I didn't change anything, you posted below in a response to something I posted about circumstances changing quickly in the NFL and there are no guarantees that our division will be terrible like it was last year.....

Doesn’t really change the overall point: we aren’t tanking. The organization isn’t rebuilding.

Which is odd, because I never alluded that we are tanking or rebuilding....I then proceeded to share my thoughts on next season which I guess you don't like or agree with....and that is somehow changing a conversation which I didn't start in the first place? Ok.....

 

[Saint Spud]

I didn't change anything, you posted below in a response to something I posted about circumstances changing quickly in the NFL and there are no guarantees that our division will be terrible like it was last year.....



Which is odd, because I never alluded that we are tanking or rebuilding....I then proceeded to share my thoughts on next season which I guess you don't like or agree with....and that is somehow changing a conversation which I didn't start in the first place? Ok.....

You jumped in on a conversation that was pointing out “denial.” You tried to argue a point that the division may not be bad. Whether the division will or won’t be bad isn’t relevant to the point of what we are actually doing. We are not tanking. We are not rebuilding. We are trying to win and win now.

The whole point about the “denial” was the idea that some posters seem to be in denial about what we are actually doing. The idea that we shouldn’t pursue a QB or discuss the best QB for this team because Dennis Allen stinks or the team stinks and it won’t matter anyway is denying that the FO isn’t acting that way.

Your point seems to be unrelated to what the actual discussion was.

 

[sfidc3]

You jumped in on a conversation that was pointing out “denial.” You tried to argue a point that the division may not be bad. Whether the division will or won’t be bad isn’t relevant to the point of what we are actually doing. We are not tanking. We are not rebuilding. We are trying to win and win now.

The whole point about the “denial” was the idea that some posters seem to be in denial about what we are actually doing. The idea that we shouldn’t pursue a QB or discuss the best QB for this team because Dennis Allen stinks or the team stinks and it won’t matter anyway is denying that the FO isn’t acting that way.

Your point seems to be unrelated to what the actual discussion was.

It's relevant when folks keep parroting that all need is this or that to win the division because it will be that bad.....

It's illogical to assume such and many of these same folks (not saying you are one, though you may be) have nonsensical arguments supporting the notion that suddenly AD will magically bring us a winning season and the playoffs....I mean one guy said in one breath that he didn't believe or have faith in AD and in another this is what we need to do to be 11-6.....makes no sense to me.....also, discussions often veer off and turn in threads....many of them in fact....also, last I checked you weren't the only one having a discussion on this thread....though you seem to think you are.....

 

[Saint Spud]

It's relevant when folks keep parroting that all need is this or that to win the division because it will be that bad.....

It's illogical to assume such and many of these same folks (not saying you are one, though you may be) have nonsensical arguments supporting the notion that suddenly AD will magically bring us a winning season and the playoffs....I mean one guy said in one breath that he didn't believe or have faith in AD and in another this is what we need to do to be 11-6.....makes no sense to me.....also, discussions often veer off and turn in threads....many of them in fact....also, last I checked you weren't the only one having a discussion on this thread....though you seem to think you are.....

I was responding to your response to me. The conversation wasn’t about what you thought it was (apparently).

The division may be bad. It may not. It’s irrelevant to what the organization is actually doing. They feel they can win it and are going for it. That was the point.

 

[nakadish]

I will agree that the Saints roster if completely healthy is still a pretty good roster. But a roster on paper, alone does not get you to 11 wins.....you also need good competent coaching/leadership and a sense of accountability.

Yet the same coaching staff that was an abject disaster last year is back, what convinces you that things will get any better? I mean the Carolina loss was a microcosm of what stunk the entire 2nd half of the season, an inability to score points, how is that magically going to change?

I would be a lot more skeptical if Pete didn't have a very good season as OC before. I understand the skepticism about DA. But, the only argument against DA at this point is the performance of the offense. He's made good moves to upgrade the roster, and I think his coaching changes have been good. And if you listen to players like MT and Jordan, it sounds like they believe in DA that they can be competitive this season.

The offense definitely needs to change, and I don't see why Pete can't do that with the right pieces because he's done it before. Underhill and Triplett even acknowledged that the Saints knew that side of the ball needed to change. But, it depends on health and making the right moves.

And one things that goes unnoticed on injuries is that soft tissue injuries were actually down last year. But, they had a lot more freak injuries like Winston and Latimore. So, there's reason to be optimistic on the injury front as well.

I think a lot of it has to do with AD. I think they expected more from AD than they got but didn't want to do the musical QB thing after realizing he wasn't the guy they thought he was.