Derek Carr world tour thread (updated with combine visits) (2 Viewers)

[44slayer]

Winning the division is still a step in the right direction.
The Payton/Brees run started with a ‘06 NFCS title run.

Where’s the Payton and Brees in this scenario? Allen and Dalton? The bucs won the NFC south last year, was that a step in the right direction for them?

It’s just not as simple as winning the division, this division in particular. If you win any of the other 7 divisions, I’d agree. But this division isn’t a litmus test for success. Somebody had to win it last year, but no one deserved to.

 

[Saint Spud]

Where’s the Payton and Brees in this scenario? Allen and Dalton? The bucs won the NFC south last year, was that a step in the right direction for them?

You can see the difference between:

-going from 13 wins to 8 wins and losing the greatest QB of all time to retirement

vs.

-going from 7 wins to a division title…

Right? It’s literally the definition of a step in the right direction vs a huge step in the wrong direction.

 

[Saint Jack]

Where’s the Payton and Brees in this scenario? Allen and Dalton? The bucs won the NFC south last year, was that a step in the right direction for them?

It’s just not as simple as winning the division, this division in particular. If you win any of the other 7 divisions, I’d agree. But this division isn’t a litmus test for success. Somebody had to win it last year, but no one deserved to.

Payton and Brees didn’t turn into “Payton and Brees” until 2009.
That period before the Super Bowl only yielded a 25-23 record then they won the championship and became the HOFers you see today.
But it started with a ‘06 division title run.

 

[nakadish]

You can see the difference between:

-going from 13 wins to 8 wins and losing the greatest QB of all time to retirement

vs.

-going from 7 wins to a division title…

Right? It’s literally the definition of a step in the right direction vs a huge step in the wrong direction.

That's kinda what happens when you go through a rebuild. That was going to happen in any case. How do you avoid that when you lose both Drew and one of only 2 weapons on offense? 3 if you want to include Hill. Practice squad receivers don't get you very far when you don't have a HOF QB.

And, now we have a new coach and no QB and a baseline of meh. The question is are they ascending or descending or staying mediocre? We don't know, yet. But, if they make the right moves this offseason I think there's reason to believe that they will be on the ascending end. But, they're still a couple years away.

 

[Saint Spud]

Payton and Brees didn’t turn into “Payton and Brees” until 2009.
That period before the Super Bowl only yielded a 25-23 record then they won the championship and became the HOFers you see today.
But it started with a ‘06 division title run.

I still can’t fathom this idea that winning a division title is now beneath us as an accomplishment. What a weird world.

 

[nakadish]

Payton and Brees didn’t turn into “Payton and Brees” until 2009.
That period before the Super Bowl only yielded a 25-23 record then they won the championship and became the HOFers you see today.
But it started with a ‘06 division title run.

That's not entirely true. It was always Payton and Brees. The offense was always good. The defense was what held them back. Now it's the opposite with DA. But, you don't win games without putting points on the board no matter how good the defense is. They need to fix that.

 

[DSnfla]

You couldn't be more wrong....getting to the SB is incredibly difficult even with a great coach and QB....we only got there once. Meaningful to me is making the playoffs.....period....then you at least have a chance.

You state you don't have any faith in DA and then proceed to say that we add Carr and some other personnel and we go 11-6.....right.....What the Fork!?

Never say never but the chances of going 11-6 with DA at the helm? Slim...IMO

Carr is the kicker in the whole thing. I did say a few pieces and stay fairly healthy. With DC DA will be more confident in the position and maybe will let PC and DC loose with the O. There are plenty of bad HCs with good teams that have had success. If we had a good QB last yr even with the injuries and DA we would have made the playoffs and according to you that's meaningful

 

[SweetT]

Huh……many of us saw this coming, but many didn’t. How have we fallen to the point that we do not want a 4X Pro Bowler, great TD-INT ratio, and 91% passer rating QB? That SP/Brees offense has spoiled y’all to the point where some of you are acting like Patriot fans. Like we won multiple SBs or some crap. If a QB like Carr wants to sign with us and we want him, then take that. Dude would make us the NFC South favorite instantly. Just get into the playoffs and let the chips fall where they may. I like our roster. Those dudes gutted out 7 wins in talent alone, with a massive amount of injuries that didn’t help. Just give me the QB and I’ll be good. And don’t give me that crap about Dalton being just as good as Carr bc that is about an asinine statement as can be made.

 

[DSnfla]

No2DC brings up a good point, that is especially relevant, IMO.

I think the main crux of the discussion in this thread revolves around your statement. I think most of us like the idea of DC4 in black & gold....but at the right price. NO ONE wants the Kirk Cousins situation you described. And most of us think (hope?!) this will be DAs last season as HC. IF that comes to fruition, we don't want our Saints to be tethered to a Cousins-like situation....position could use an upgrade, but salary prevents the upgrade from happening. That is the WORST position to be in. It's one thing for a player to bust, and you move on. It's another thing when the player busts, but you have to keep him because you can't afford to cut him. There's an opportunity to improve with the former; you're stuck in purgatory with the latter.

The FA QB market is only going to get worse in the next few yrs, The top QBs going into FA will all likelihood not be changing teams , Burrow, Hurts , Herbert. Then you get the next tier. Cousins, Tannihill, Tua.And then it drops off. And salaries are only going to go up so paying Carr 35 will look like a bargain in the coming yrs. Only other way is to draft a rookie QB and pray he's not a bust AND that he can come in right away and make you win
Carr has never been a bust and chances are he won't be . If the rook is a bust then you've wasted the rest of AK, Cam, Davis and 3 or more yrs of your best players. When the cap gets to be close to 300m that 35m we pay DC will seem like drop in the bucket

 

[Rexman100]

Yeah, I thought the team played hard, just missed opportunities, the defense not getting any turnovers and some key questionable playcalls at times was the difference between winning and losing. Team really should have won 10 games. But that's the NFL. I think this season is gonna make or break Allen. I really want him to succeed. I'm over complaining about the coac

Yet, had a few breaks that went their way, instead end up going the opposite way, means they could have also easily been 5-12. If that is how it works, Atlanta could have easily been 9-8. Carolina could have easily 9-8. MN could have been13-4 or 6-10, KC could have easily been 15-2 or 10-7.

This is why Parcells didn’t traffic in the kind of rationalization you are leani

I'm not rationalizing anything. Just thinking about how close the team was to getting it done. This isn't isn't an argument for or against anything. More like simply thinking out loud. Of course it could have gone a lot of other ways. I would say we're close enough to not need to blow the team up. Just need to improve in some key spots to get over to the winning side enough to be a playoff contender.

If you can literally isolate a few plays per game that didn’t go your way and you lost. If much different than getting blown out 52-10. 6 losses were within a TD. If I recall. This means, do what you can in the offseason that gives you the best chance to win those 6 games.

 

[44slayer]

Payton and Brees didn’t turn into “Payton and Brees” until 2009.
That period before the Super Bowl only yielded a 25-23 record then they won the championship and became the HOFers you see today.
But it started with a ‘06 division title run.

This just isnt based in reality. Brees averaged 4,637 yard per from 2006-2008, led the league in passing twice, completions twice, td passes and was offensive player of the year in 2008. Winning the worst division in NFL history isnt all of a sudden going to turn Allen and Dalton into the next coming of Payton and Brees.

 

[44slayer]

I still can’t fathom this idea that winning a division title is now beneath us as an accomplishment. What a weird world.

Big picture. You are oversimplifying things. Winning the division, thats great. Many coaches have gotten fired after winning a division and bouncing out of the playoffs. Its an accomplishment, but it doesnt make you a contender. It just makes you the least bad out of a bunch of bad teams. If winning the division is your new Super Bowl, then you should be fine.

 

[Saint Spud]

This just isnt based in reality. Brees averaged 4,637 yard per from 2006-2008, led the league in passing twice, completions twice, td passes and was offensive player of the year in 2008. Winning the worst division in NFL history isnt all of a sudden going to turn Allen and Dalton into the next coming of Payton and Brees.

Who thinks Allen and Dalton are going to become Payton and Brees?

The straw man arguments on this site have gotten out of control.

 

[Saint Spud]

Big picture. You are oversimplifying things. Winning the division, thats great. Many coaches have gotten fired after winning a division and bouncing out of the playoffs. It’s an accomplishment, but it doesnt make you a contender. It just makes you the least bad out of a bunch of bad teams. If winning the division is your new Super Bowl, then you should be fine.

Big picture? Winning a division title is an accomplishment when you’re trying to get your franchise back on track. It’s a step.

No one thinks it’s a good ultimate goal. Again, that’s a straw man argument.

 

[DSnfla]

I will agree that the Saints roster if completely healthy is still a pretty good roster. But a roster on paper, alone does not get you to 11 wins.....you also need good competent coaching/leadership and a sense of accountability.

Yet the same coaching staff that was an abject disaster last year is back, what convinces you that things will get any better? I mean the Carolina loss was a microcosm of what stunk the entire 2nd half of the season, an inability to score points, how is that magically going to change?

We changed 5 coaches in the offseason , not the same