Derek Carr world tour thread (updated with combine visits) (1 Viewer)

[44slayer]

Big picture? Winning a division title is an accomplishment when you’re trying to get your franchise back on track. It’s a step.

No one thinks it’s a good ultimate goal. Again, that’s a straw man argument.

Read the thread. Someone was going on about how a division title could spark a Brees/Payton like boon for the franchise because it did in 06.

Winning the worst division in football, keeps Allen employed. It keep us kicking the can down the road, it prevents us from rebuilding a better team. It keeps us shopping for bargains in the draft and FA that we probably should avoid. If you are 8-9 and winning a division every year, and at no point you become a contender, is that a goal?

Id rather rebuild, reset the cap, reset the HC and OC, than win a NFC title this year in a terrible division. Thats the microwave society Allen mustve been talking about. We will just win a division title at 8-9 to keep people happy instead of doing whats necessary to actually build a contender.

 

[Saint Jack]

This just isnt based in reality. Brees averaged 4,637 yard per from 2006-2008, led the league in passing twice, completions twice, td passes and was offensive player of the year in 2008. Winning the worst division in NFL history isnt all of a sudden going to turn Allen and Dalton into the next coming of Payton and Brees.

No one is expecting Allen and (insert QB name here) to become the next Payton/Brees.
But winning the NFCS is still an accomplishment, better than laying down the season as a loss.
One division title run can lead to something bigger in the following seasons.

 

[44slayer]

No one is expecting Allen and (insert QB name here) to become the next Payton/Brees.
But winning the NFCS is still an accomplishment, better than laying down the season as a loss.
One division title run can lead to something bigger in the following seasons.

"The Payton/Brees run started with a ‘06 NFCS title run"
"Payton and Brees didn’t turn into “Payton and Brees” until 2009.
That period before the Super Bowl only yielded a 25-23 record then they won the championship and became the HOFers you see today.
But it started with a ‘06 division title run"

The 2nd part is just some oddball narrative you made up. But the reason they were Payton and Brees, was because they were Payton and Brees. The 2 most important humans on a football team 1) QB 2) HC. Both Hall of Fame in their respective positions. Likening this, to that, just doesnt hold water.

 

[Saint Spud]

Read the thread. Someone was going on about how a division title could spark a Brees/Payton like boon for the franchise because it did in 06.

Winning the worst division in football, keeps Allen employed. It keep us kicking the can down the road, it prevents us from rebuilding a better team. It keeps us shopping for bargains in the draft and FA that we probably should avoid. If you are 8-9 and winning a division every year, and at no point you become a contender, is that a goal?

Id rather rebuild, reset the cap, reset the HC and OC, than win a NFC title this year in a terrible division. Thats the microwave society Allen mustve been talking about. We will just win a division title at 8-9 to keep people happy instead of doing whats necessary to actually build a contender.

The thread is about Derek Carr and his free agent visits. Posters have somehow derailed it into a thread about how this franchise is hopeless with Allen as HC.

You’ve also created another straw man argument that “winning the division” also equals “an 8-9 record.”

The team isn’t tanking. So why can’t we discuss ways to give Allen and this staff the absolute best chance to prove everyone wrong and show that they’re not incompetent?

 

[Saint Jack]

"The Payton/Brees run started with a ‘06 NFCS title run"
"Payton and Brees didn’t turn into “Payton and Brees” until 2009.
That period before the Super Bowl only yielded a 25-23 record then they won the championship and became the HOFers you see today.
But it started with a ‘06 division title run"

The 2nd part is just some oddball narrative you made up. But the reason they were Payton and Brees, was because they were Payton and Brees. The 2 most important humans on a football team 1) QB 2) HC. Both Hall of Fame in their respective positions. Likening this, to that, just doesnt hold water.

The two previous seasons were 7-9 and 8-8. No one was calling Brees and Payton HOFers.

 

[44slayer]

The two previous seasons were 7-9 and 8-8. No one was calling Brees and Payton HOFers.

Youre right. We definitely have a coach and qb who might become HoFs at some point. Come on. They went to the NFCCG in year 1 coming off 3-13. The attitude then was 10000% different that it is right now. We knew we had the 2 most important pieces in place.

 

[Saint Jack]

Youre right. We definitely have a coach and qb who might become HoFs at some point. Come on. They went to the NFCCG in year 1 coming off 3-13. The attitude then was 10000% different that it is right now. We knew we had the 2 most important pieces in place.

And the next two seasons were average equaling to an average 25-23 record.
If the Saints had gone 7-9 in ‘09, there would be a good chance the franchise would have let go of Payton.

 

[Saint Spud]

Youre right. We definitely have a coach and qb who might become HoFs at some point. Come on. They went to the NFCCG in year 1 coming off 3-13. The attitude then was 10000% different that it is right now. We knew we had the 2 most important pieces in place.

LOL. You definitely didn’t pay attention to threads after the 08 season if you think that was everyone’s opinion on here wrt Payton.

 

[44slayer]

The thread is about Derek Carr and his free agent visits. Posters have somehow derailed it into a thread about how this franchise is hopeless with Allen as HC.

You’ve also created another straw man argument that “winning the division” also equals “an 8-9 record.”

The team isn’t tanking. So why can’t we discuss ways to give Allen and this staff the absolute best chance to prove everyone wrong and show that they’re not incompetent?

A straw man argument is guessing what the future division winners record might be? 8-9, 9-8, 10-7, what does it matter if it doesnt make you a contender. The actual division winner last year was 8-9. Who had a HoF QB, and still werent contenders. You keep making this up as you go. You cant see that winning the worst division in NFL history - current best QB is Sam Darnold - could lead to more years mired in mediocrity. Its an accomplishment, but long term goal? I dont think winning this division next year pushes us down the road to the next Payton/Brees run.

Its an accomplishment. It doesnt make us contenders. It doesnt push us toward becoming a contender.

 

[Saint Spud]

A straw man argument is guessing what the future division winners record might be? 8-9, 9-8, 10-7, what does it matter if it doesnt make you a contender. The actual division winner last year was 8-9. Who had a HoF QB, and still werent contenders. You keep making this up as you go. You cant see that winning the worst division in NFL history - current best QB is Sam Darnold - could lead to more years mired in mediocrity. Its an accomplishment, but long term goal? I dont think winning this division next year pushes us down the road to the next Payton/Brees run.

You don’t have to go from 7 wins to winning the Super Bowl in one year.

And why does everything have to compare to the Payton/Brees run? They’re gone. We have to figure out a way to build a consistent winner without them.

 

[44slayer]

You don’t have to go from 7 wins to winning the Super Bowl in one year.

And why does everything have to compare to the Payton/Brees run? They’re gone. We have to figure out a way to build a consistent winner without them.

JHC.

 

[BayouSAINTJoe]

You don’t have to go from 7 wins to winning the Super Bowl in one year.

And why does everything have to compare to the Payton/Brees run? They’re gone. We have to figure out a way to build a consistent winner without them.

I agree and it starts with purging the remnants of that coaching staff

 

[nakadish]

JHC.

No. PFC.

Pete Freaking Carmichael.

 

[44slayer]

No. PFC.

Pete Freaking Carmichael.

The point is, no one is expecting to go from 7 wins to a SB.

Some of us think the fastest way to a SB is to reset, rebuild, new coaching staff, etc and that might mean being pretty bad for a year or two. People think we can do that - while winning this terrible division. We cant. Its a bandaid. Its the microwave society. I think we are further away from the SB by kicking the can down the road to win this division than we are if we get a fresh slate and rebuild. Its more years with Allen and restructuring the roster to shave of 60-100 million off the cap every year just to stay mediocre?

 

[Saint Spud]

The point is, no one is expecting to go from 7 wins to a SB.

Some of us think the fastest way to a SB is to reset, rebuild, new coaching staff, etc and that might mean being pretty bad for a year or two. People think we can do that - while winning this terrible division. We cant. Its a bandaid. Its the microwave society. I think we are further away from the SB by kicking the can down the road to win this division than we are if we get a fresh slate and rebuild. Its more years with Allen and restructuring the roster to shave of 60-100 million off the cap every year just to stay mediocre?

And yet there is nothing in history that proves your preferred way is better. Bad teams stay bad all the time, even after tanking or resetting or whatever you want to call it.

It may happen organically anyway. But it’s not the path we’re taking at this point.