Derek Carr world tour thread (updated with combine visits) (4 Viewers)

[Saint Spud]

Pat’s are not great right now. There’s rumors that Bill is soured on Jones and thinks Zappe is not a huge step down. The Bills are great but do have a tendency to turn the ball over. The Dolphins are a Tua concussion away from being mediocre and that’s if you think Tua is what he showed in games last year. While they’re not NFC South bad they aren’t setting the world on fire. With 3 QB’s and possibly their best offensive player injured they still won 7 games. I’m a huge patriot fan but Brady isn’t in that building anymore.

No one said the Pats are great. But they’re better than the Panthers, Bucs and Falcons.

A “mediocre” Dolphins team would still be better than the Panthers, Bucs and Falcons.

You’re also ignoring the rest of the AFC. KC, Cincinnati, Buffalo and then the next tier including the teams above plus LAC, Baltimore, Cincinnati, Jacksonville.

 

[No2DC]

We came a lot closer to winning the division than the Jets did, and that's in spite of injuries and issues with the QB position. Jets had some too, but that was a push at best.

We have issues sure, but I wouldn't say it's as bad as the Jets.

I do think his prior relationship with Allen helps. Whether that's enough remains to be seen.

I think the gap is debatable. They feel like they have an up-and-coming defense with potential young stars, and they were in many close games that QB play cost them.
I'm sure they feel the same as us: "if we get respectable qb play, we can be in the hunt for the division title or the playoffs." Both teams have defensive coaches but they have more money and picks to acquire more talent than we do.

 

[No2DC]

No one said the Pats are great. But they’re better than the Panthers, Bucs and Falcons.

A “mediocre” Dolphins team would still be better than the Panthers, Bucs and Falcons.

You’re also ignoring the rest of the AFC. KC, Cincinnati, Buffalo and then the next tier including the teams above plus LAC, Baltimore, Cincinnati, Jacksonville.

You don't fear your division and remember he's played in the AFC his whole career. The Dolphins are not the same without Tua (who is a concussion away from retirement) and Allen looked like he took a step back last year without Daboll. I just don't think we are clearly the better choice and our best asset is a personal relationship, not the current status of our team.

 

[Saint Spud]

You don't fear your division and remember he's played in the AFC his whole career. The Dolphins are not the same without Tua (who is a concussion away from retirement) and Allen looked like he took a step back last year without Daboll. I just don't think we are clearly the better choice and our best asset is a personal relationship, not the current status of our team.

If all that you and rlemieux are saying is true, then why is the Jets 7-10 better than the Saints 7-10?

Can’t have it both ways.

 

[DaveXA]

I think the gap is debatable. They feel like they have an up-and-coming defense with potential young stars, and they were in many close games that QB play cost them.
I'm sure they feel the same as us: "if we get respectable qb play, we can be in the hunt for the division title or the playoffs." Both teams have defensive coaches but they have more money and picks to acquire more talent than we do.

Sure it's debatable. And objectively, the rest of the NFCS division is worse than the rest of the AFCE. Not to mention the AFC overall where QBs rule that conference. If I'm Carr, I want the best odds of getting to the playoffs, and the Saints have better odds than the Jets on that point.

That said, the Jets probably do have more money. The question I guess is whether that's enough to sway Carr their way.

 

[sfidc3]

Would you feel comfortable with Payton coaching the Saints this past season? I wouldn't. And if Payton was coaching last season, they likely wouldn't have drafted Olave so it might have been even worse. Payton even said either before or after the draft that he didn't see a need to draft a receiver high in the draft for the Saints. Could you imagine this past season without Olave, with any coach?

What about 2021? Were you comfortable then? Payton or no Payton, the Saints don't have a Superbowl roster, and trying to hold DA to that level without the horses to do that is unreasonable. The Saints have a .500 roster right now with or without Payton. DA may or may not be a good HC, but blaming DA for the Saints being mediocre with the current roster is absurd.

And, I fail to see how this is a lot different from early in Payton's tenure where he had a good offense and a bad defense. DA has the opposite. The defense is good. Just fix the offense. I don't see how that's a lot different except that they don't have a veteran future HOF QB. If Payton had missed out on Brees and drafted Leinart, he would be an OC somewhere. Carr answers a lot of questions, one way or the other.

Ah, where do I start....

Had CSP coached the Saints last season I believe we would have won the division (easily), made the playoffs and while, with the injuries and such, this was not a SB roster, we would have had at least a chance....

The season would have been worse because CSP would not have drafted Olave? Ok, I'm not sure how to even respond to that but it's....an interesting take....I mean just one, albeit very good, rookie WR got us to...gulp....7-10? Olave, in the big scheme doesn't even factor into the equation here, this team was devoid of leadership, illogically conservative and for the last half of the season, really couldn't score in the 2nd half (or the 1st really)....

You fail to see how this is different than CSP's early tenure because you are completely ignoring reality or the facts.....his first year we went to the NFC championship game (coming off a 3-13 record the year before), we had a down year the next year, a slightly better one the next and then SB.....

And this what if he didn't have this or that type arguments are totally nonsensical.....unrelated to the facts.....totally discounting the notion that Brees improvement at QB may have been partly due to CSP and his offense designed to maximize his strengths.....

Wake me when DA has his 1st winning season, folks going to lengths to defend a coach who has 1 single win in 50 games as a HC (against a team with a winning record) is just mind boggling to me....

And, I guess, you weren't paying attention, but the year before last (CSP's last year) we had more injuries than last year, no Olave (see what I did there) and still finished 9-8 and should have been in the playoffs, I believe the Saints set an NFL record for injuries (starts missed by starters), and played 4 different QB's.....would you be comfortable with DA coaching that roster? because it was worse than last year's....

And I'm not trying to hold DA to any "level", I would settle for competent, his style of conservative football we have seen before, in today's NFL it simply doesn't work....Maybe DA will learn from this season, it's not impossible, but IMO not likely....but your arguments supporting him are patently absurd....IMO.....

 

[sammymvpknight]

I'd only disagree that Carr is an average qb. Last season was his first where he was decidedly average, and there were issues that led to that beyond him.

If he's in the right situation, I think he's solidly a top 10 qb. I see people saying he's not going to be any better because of our coaching, but clearly, if DA has another poor season, then next year, you get a new coaching staff and hopefully someone who can get the most out of Carr.

Whether he's worth it is certainly debatable, but considering how hard it is to find a top shelf qb, I think you get one while you can rather than waiting for a rookie to pan out.

Mahomes, Allen, Herbert, Burrow, Lawrence, Hurts, Rodgers, Jackson, and Stafford are firmly ahead of him.

I suppose you can argue that he’s a part of the next group, a very big group. Prescott, Goff, Geno, Tua, Cousins, Daniel Jones, Watson, Murray, Purdy, Wilson, and Tannehill. I suppose at a guy like Fields could have an argument, though I wouldn’t agree. Jimmy G probably has an argument but I think that availability is a skill, so I say no. But you can see…I listed 20+ guys who I know that some would take over Carr if they were starting their own franchise today.

Below that tier you have unproven young players like Pickett, Mac Jones, and Lance and veterans like Brissett, Dalton, Minshew, and Winston rounding out the top 32 QBs in the NFL.

I personally think that the second tier is closer to the league average QB than the bottom tier, and considering that Carr is firmly in that second tier I think that he is pretty average. But heck…average is better than we have had the past two seasons. I’m just not sure that an average QB is worth $45 million/year, especially with our build. I think we are a few years away even with Carr…so I think that Allen’s fate is almost sealed. Do we really want to invest $45 million per on a QB this year knowing we have a lame duck HC? I say that’s foolish. Ride out the storm and regroup next season

 

[St. Geezy]

Panthers are now in the Carr sweepstakes. Is Sam Darnold worth a look?

Where did you see this?

 

[St. Geezy]

Panthers are now in the Carr sweepstakes. Is Sam Darnold worth a look?

This is all I see:

When asked about his team’s interest in hosting the free agent passer for a visit at their facility like the New Orleans Saints and New York Jets, Reich told ESPN’s David Newton that it was a “Really interesting question,” adding that he wasn’t prepared to get into the specifics of such a meeting.

 

[rlemieux]

If all that you and rlemieux are saying is true, then why is the Jets 7-10 better than the Saints 7-10?

Can’t have it both ways.

For one, the Jets found ways to win in spite of their QB woes. They also have the #4 ranked defense. While our defense had its moments and technically was ranked high too I can’t say I’m confident in them. Zero pass rush, questionable back end and loses like Tampa were just awful play. Not to mention, I see a coach in Salah that motivates his players. I don’t see that with Allen. I especially don’t see a top offensive mind when I look at Pete. Payton was the brains and heart of this coaching staff. Listening to Matt Flynn talk about his time with Allen makes me all the more worried that he is what he is and a head coach he is not. So yes, if I’m Carr and I’m looking to resurrect my career, I take the Jets, Salah, Wilson, Hall and their defense over the Saints 7 days a week and twice on Sunday.

 

[Saint Spud]

For one, the Jets found ways to win in spite of their QB woes. They also have the #4 ranked defense. While our defense had its moments and technically was ranked high too I can’t say I’m confident in them. Zero pass rush, questionable back end and loses like Tampa were just awful play. Not to mention, I see a coach in Salah that motivates his players. I don’t see that with Allen. I especially don’t see a top offensive mind when I look at Pete. Payton was the brains and heart of this coaching staff. Listening to Matt Flynn talk about his time with Allen makes me all the more worried that he is what he is and a head coach he is not. So yes, if I’m Carr and I’m looking to resurrect my career, I take the Jets, Salah, Wilson, Hall and their defense over the Saints 7 days a week and twice on Sunday.

So you’re making excuses/allowances for the Jets that you’re not for the Saints.

That’s the whole point. Either the AFC and AFC east are better than the NFC South, which makes it a more difficult place to win. Or it’s not, and both the Saints and Jets won 7 games and each could benefit from a QB upgrade.

Again, can’t have it both ways.

 

[DaveXA]

Mahomes, Allen, Herbert, Burrow, Lawrence, Hurts, Rodgers, Jackson, and Stafford are firmly ahead of him.

I suppose you can argue that he’s a part of the next group, a very big group. Prescott, Goff, Geno, Tua, Cousins, Daniel Jones, Watson, Murray, Purdy, Wilson, and Tannehill. I suppose at a guy like Fields could have an argument, though I wouldn’t agree. Jimmy G probably has an argument but I think that availability is a skill, so I say no. But you can see…I listed 20+ guys who I know that some would take over Carr if they were starting their own franchise today.

Below that tier you have unproven young players like Pickett, Mac Jones, and Lance and veterans like Brissett, Dalton, Minshew, and Winston rounding out the top 32 QBs in the NFL.

I personally think that the second tier is closer to the league average QB than the bottom tier, and considering that Carr is firmly in that second tier I think that he is pretty average. But heck…average is better than we have had the past two seasons. I’m just not sure that an average QB is worth $45 million/year, especially with our build. I think we are a few years away even with Carr…so I think that Allen’s fate is almost sealed. Do we really want to invest $45 million per on a QB this year knowing we have a lame duck HC? I say that’s foolish. Ride out the storm and regroup next season

I'd argue that he's at the top of that second group. The only one of those I might rank ahead of him would be Watson, and of course he had his own issues, although mostly off the field stuff. Rodgers and Stafford are in the twilight of their careers, so I'd rather have Carr in his prime than a 1-2 year rental. That puts Carr firmly in the top 10 QBs. Clearly better than average. And if you go by his stats prior to last season, he easily qualifies.

 

[sammymvpknight]

I'd argue that he's at the top of that second group. The only one of those I might rank ahead of him would be Watson, and of course he had his own issues, although mostly off the field stuff. Rodgers and Stafford are in the twilight of their careers, so I'd rather have Carr in his prime than a 1-2 year rental. That puts Carr firmly in the top 10 QBs. Clearly better than average. And if you go by his stats prior to last season, he easily qualifies.

I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree. I like Carr, but he’s being overhyped by the forum right now because the Saints are looking at him. We have all convinced ourselves that he is better than what he is. He hasn’t looked good the past two seasons and his supporting cast may be even better than we have in New Orleans

 

[SWJJ]

Saints > Jets

periodt!

 

[DavidM]

I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree. I like Carr, but he’s being overhyped by the forum right now because the Saints are looking at him. We have all convinced ourselves that he is better than what he is. He hasn’t looked good the past two seasons and his supporting cast may be even better than we have in New Orleans

There may be some truth in that but then I wouldn't put Lawrence in the same group you did. He's trending the right direction but there's nothing in his production so far that puts him within mention of Mahomes, Burrow, and Hurts other than he's young. In fact, Throw in Herbert and Allen with them, then a next tier of Rodgers and Jackson, (elite talent; one is in his twilight and the other has durability and playoff concerns) and I think there's a bigger group bunched together and Carr has a place among them.

All subjective, of course, but I think situations and supporting casts are the biggest differentiators among that group.