DeVos - Education Secretary discussion (1 Viewer)

DaveXA

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A few people have expressed a pretty strong reaction to this pick in the cabinet picks thread, so I'd like a more full discussion of the issues not only with the pick, but the direction of the Department of Education going forward. What should be it's role and what policy directives will influence what state and local education departments do.

Would like to see a fuller discussion here. Thoughts?
 

Heathen Saint

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The billion dollar private school voucher program Trump proposed along with this pick seem to indicate a conscientious effort to focus more on private education than public. If anything is known about a good number of his base, it's that they are pushing the "government is the enemy/keep the government out of our schools" narrative behind all this. Hey, at least he's not still proposing getting rid of the Dept. of Education. This includes assumedly trying to get rid of common core. Which Devos previously supported. Oops! Eh well, fits with the narrative of his campaign.

Just to recap..he picked a charter school advocate to run the public school system. Unless i'm missing something, it looks a lot like focusing on funneling more money toward schools with kids of parents that can purchase their education. Maybe i'm being overly cynical, but from the outset--his list of potential picks looked pretty bad. Not a fan.
 

Goatman Saint

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Yup siphon money off to charter schools that have very little to no regulation and are run for profit. Yet again Trump being the train wreck that I thought.


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mt15

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There's really no good reason that tax monies should be spent on private schools. At least not that I've heard. When you siphon tax money away from the public schools it weakens them, how could it not? We don't need any more corporations getting fat from tax dollars.

The public school system is a fundamental reason America has successfully integrated wave after wave of immigrants during the previous century. It gave my own father who immigrated at age 8 a great education that he was able to use to win a scholarship and become the first member of his family to graduate from college. It provides underprivileged kids with hope and the skills needed to better themselves.
 

JimEverett

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I don;t see the Education Department as having too much power at all. If Trump wants to propose an appropriation for vouchers he is going to need Congressional approval, not just run it though the Department of Education.

Further, I am close to positive that a state or local school district cannot be forced to issue vouchers by the federal government.
The fear, I guess, is that Congress takes existing federal money and turns part of that into funds allocated for voucher monies.

Other than administer such an appropriation, or similar one, by congress, what can the Department of Education do in the way of vouchers?
 

Mr. Sparkle

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She's being panned by the teachers unions AND people that reflexively hate "Common Core"... that's a good sign!

FWIW I am very pro charter but pretty lukewarm on vouchers.
 
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DaveXA

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I don;t see the Education Department as having too much power at all. If Trump wants to propose an appropriation for vouchers he is going to need Congressional approval, not just run it though the Department of Education.

Further, I am close to positive that a state or local school district cannot be forced to issue vouchers by the federal government.
The fear, I guess, is that Congress takes existing federal money and turns part of that into funds allocated for voucher monies.

Other than administer such an appropriation, or similar one, by congress, what can the Department of Education do in the way of vouchers?
This is exactly my point, hence why I think DeVos is little more than a figurehead. I don't agree with siphoning off monies away from public education into vouchers. Is that actually happening currently? Will the Department of Education actually be able to do that? As far as I can tell they can't actually force the states to do much of anything.
 

SuperMatt

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Education needs more discipline. This is one of the main reasons kids are not learning like they should!!!
 

SuperMatt

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Apparently you have no clue what teachers go thru on discipline issues!! Don't need sources just real life. What I need a CNN, Fox, NBC or other sources. Most sources who knows if they are telling the truth anyway. The election proved this.
 

guidomerkinsrules

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As an educator who left university teaching to teach in HS after Katrina, I actually had high hopes for charters
Philosophically it seemed like they could work and something needed to be done about education in NO
And while all national eyes were on the laboratory of NO education that first five years, the benefits seemed self evident
However once schools passed their5 yr charter, most all spiraled either into a cult of personality on the upper end, with a select few schools being little more than private schools run on public money (and with all the exclusionary practices that private schools can exercise)
Or
They were shell games on the lower end with charters changing hands in the middle of scho years, schools changing principles 3-4 times a year and an endless rotation of TFA rookies trying to teach the hardest students

The whole experience was a bitter, bitter disappointment

What i am certain of now is that without EXTRAORDINARY resources (both financial and professional) it's extremely difficult to help a poor school

Education can only be fixed by fixing the neighborhood- and since no one is going to do that the only alternative is universal pre-k
The data is clear that if you can reach kids with the basics at 18 months they have a significant **** at a strong academic career
If you wait until grade school it's going to be an uphill battle in a rain storm
 

guidomerkinsrules

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Apparently you have no clue what teachers go thru on discipline issues!!
was a teacher and have sat in all the conferences, done the walk-throughs, read all teh papers

Don't need sources just real life.
what does this even mean?

What I need a CNN, Fox, NBC or other sources.
i meant research papers and comparative studies - but i'll take anything besides fever dream rantings

Most sources who knows if they are telling the truth anyway.
again, what does this even mean?

The election proved this.
within a year there will be 6000 proofs in regards to this elections
5982 of those proofs will be wrong
- at the end of the day the simplest answer is that with the exception of '92 the presidential party hardly ever stays in power after 8 years, and if electing Trump doesn't prove that point, i don't know what to tell you
 
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DaveXA

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I've wondered how all of that happened. How at the 5 year mark did all those changes start happening? Was money simply rerouted? Staff changed? State funding? How did schools change hands? Which school did you have experience with? The quasi-private school or the lower end school? I'm just trying to get a bead on what might have been the turning point.

I've seen some really successful charters, and some colossal failures. I've had my kids in charter schools for a short period of time, and while it wasn't bad, it didn't really seem all that much different from a standard public school with maybe the exception that the chartered school staff seemed to take more of an interest in my kids thanI'd experienced in public schools up to that point.

As an educator who left university teaching to teach in HS after Katrina, I actually had high hopes for charters
Philosophically it seemed like they could work and something needed to be done about education in NO
And while all national eyes were on the laboratory of NO education that first five years, the benefits seemed self evident
However once schools passed their5 yr charter, most all spiraled either into a cult of personality on the upper end, with a select few schools being little more than private schools run on public money (and with all the exclusionary practices that private schools can exercise)
Or
They were shell games on the lower end with charters changing hands in the middle of scho years, schools changing principles 3-4 times a year and an endless rotation of TFA rookies trying to teach the hardest students

The whole experience was a bitter, bitter disappointment

What i am certain of now is that without EXTRAORDINARY resources (both financial and professional) it's extremely difficult to help a poor school

Education can only be fixed by fixing the neighborhood- and since no one is going to do that the only alternative is universal pre-k
The data is clear that if you can reach kids with the basics at 18 months they have a significant **** at a strong academic career
If you wait until grade school it's going to be an uphill battle in a rain storm
 
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DaveXA

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Yup siphon money off to charter schools that have very little to no regulation and are run for profit. Yet again Trump being the train wreck that I thought.


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I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but I'd like to know how it does happen. Does money earmarked specifically for education get rerouted to vouchers? Or is the budget grown enough to cover the addition of vouchers? Are vouchers added at the expense of public education in a direct sense? I'm not pro or con vouchers. I do think there could be potential scenarios where they could be useful, but as with a lot of things, I'm sure it's a complex issue.
 

SuperMatt

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was a teacher and have sat in all the conferences, done the walk-throughs, read all teh papers





what does this even mean?





i meant research papers and comparative studies - but i'll take anything besides fever dream rantings





again, what does this even mean?





within a year there will be 6000 proofs in regards to this elections

5982 of those proofs will be wrong

- at the end of the day the simplest answer is that with the exception of '92 the presidential party hardly ever stays in power after 8 years, and if electing Trump doesn't prove that point, i don't know what to tell you


College teaching completely different than elementary and high school. I only have a measly college degree compared to you. College teachers can teach students who want to learn they fail the ones who don't want to learn. Locally teachers have to pass 90% of students regardless of their grades. Just so they do better than the bottom 10%. So 1+1=3 is a passing grade nowadays. On discipline I'd bet you as a college teacher didn't have to tolerate this where as a regular teacher can only write up a certain percentage of kids who rarely get disciplined. A kid brought a knife to local school last year and he was back in class a few days later what lesson is this telling other kids.


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