Dixie Brewery to change name (1 Viewer)

LAhotsauce

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Food, festivals, hospitality and music are a few of the things I think of when I think of the positive aspects of the south. There's more, but i think this would suffice.
I'm pretty sure the food and music at this place in Natchez (Mammy's Cupboard) are wonderful too. But it's kinda hard to separate it's exterior. I think for MANY americans the same applies to "Dixie."

And it boggles my mind that this place can still operate in 2020.


 

guidomerkinsrules

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They are, but I'm not sure that parsing will make all that much difference. I guess, like with a lot of things, it's gonna be a mixed bag. I mean, I think of Mardi Gras, Cajun food, Zydeco music, Southern hospitality, hosting Super Bowls in New Orleans, Ragin Cajuns sporting events. There are hundreds of festivals across Louisiana every year. Some may have origins in the old CSA, but many others have different origins. That's just off the top of my head. Sure there are aspects of the South that are racist, but I'm just talking about those things that aren't.
tbc you’re contention was about southern cultural expressions that were not ‘rooted in racism’
That is a very different thing than ‘nowadays seems fairly open and inclusive ‘
My point is that it is nearly impossible for any Southern culture to not have roots that grow out of slavery/Jim crow and all of the appropriation/ theft that entails
 

DaveXA

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I'm pretty sure the food and music at this place in Natchez (Mammy's Cupboard) are wonderful too. But it's kinda hard to separate it's exterior. I think for MANY americans the same applies to "Dixie."

And it boggles my mind that this place can still operate in 2020.


Of course there will be examples of racism in just about everything. We're not going to ban music because someone sings a racist song, or ban restaurants because someone has a racist restaurant. My point is that there are aspects of southern culture that are quite good and don't have anything to do with racism. It strikes me as throwing out the baby with the bathwater to do so.
 

DaveXA

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tbc you’re contention was about southern cultural expressions that were not ‘rooted in racism’
That is a very different thing than ‘nowadays seems fairly open and inclusive ‘
My point is that it is nearly impossible for any Southern culture to not have roots that grow out of slavery/Jim crow and all of the appropriation/ theft that entails
Well, that's putting words in my mouth. I wasn't speaking to inclusivity or lack thereof. Fwiw, at least in my home, we've celebrated Mardi Gras, Super Bowls and festive occasions with all kinds of people of color. Maybe that's different from other families, but that's what we did.

I understand the racism that permeated Southern culture for hundreds of years, but at least in our case, we've tried to reclaim the positive aspects i was talking about in earlier posts for the better by being intentional and welcoming people of color in our home.
 

guidomerkinsrules

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Of course there will be examples of racism in just about everything. We're not going to ban music because someone sings a racist song, or ban restaurants because someone has a racist restaurant. My point is that there are aspects of southern culture that are quite good and don't have anything to do with racism. It strikes me as throwing out the baby with the bathwater to do so.
I move it back to a challenge since you are digging down on the “don’t have anything to do with racism” contention
I am certain you would not be able to cite any real example is southern culture that does not have anything to do with racism

And this is not just about ******* on southern culture- 3 of the biggest engines of the American development have been East coast nativism, southern slavery and westward manifest destiny
Nothing in America is free of some type of racism/xenophobia (no need for a whataboutism, that’s true of most every culture)
It’s just that the ‘nothing to do with racism’ is an unhelpful position to take if we have hopes of moving forward
 

guidomerkinsrules

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Well, that's putting words in my mouth. I wasn't speaking to inclusivity or lack thereof. Fwiw, at least in my home, we've celebrated Mardi Gras, Super Bowls and festive occasions with all kinds of people of color. Maybe that's different from other families, but that's what we did.

I understand the racism that permeated Southern culture for hundreds of years, but at least in our case, we've tried to reclaim the positive aspects i was talking about in earlier posts for the better by being intentional and welcoming people of color in our home.
Dave I quoted you
“Rooted” in racism
And’nothing to do with racism ‘
You were not trying to argue ‘have moved past racism’ (which I would still question) but you doubled down of the ‘rooted’ idea several times when I asked for clarity
 

DaveXA

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I move it back to a challenge since you are digging down on the “don’t have anything to do with racism” contention
I am certain you would not be able to cite any real example is southern culture that does not have anything to do with racism

And this is not just about ******* on southern culture- 3 of the biggest engines of the American development have been East coast nativism, southern slavery and westward manifest destiny
Nothing in America is free of some type of racism/xenophobia (no need for a whataboutism, that’s true of most every culture)
It’s just that the ‘nothing to do with racism’ is an unhelpful position to take if we have hopes of moving forward
Again, you're making assumptions and basically just putting words in my mouth. If you're gonna keep doing that, I'm not gonna keep doing this. You asked, I answered as best I can and I'm not denying the racist history of the south. I'm speaking about things that on their own aren't racist. You're not addressing my point but rather, attempting to frame it in a way that I didn't intend. I don’t like having my points mischaracterized. I get what you're trying to say, but that not the point I'm making.
 

DaveXA

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Dave I quoted you
“Rooted” in racism
And’nothing to do with racism ‘
You were not trying to argue ‘have moved past racism’ (which I would still question) but you doubled down of the ‘rooted’ idea several times when I asked for clarity
Well then, you need to restate it because I'm completely lost as to what your point is.
 

DaveXA

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Dave I quoted you
“Rooted” in racism
And’nothing to do with racism ‘
You were not trying to argue ‘have moved past racism’ (which I would still question) but you doubled down of the ‘rooted’ idea several times when I asked for clarity
Is hospitality rooted in racism? Is music rooted in racism? Are festivals in general rooted in racism? If it's your contention that those things are fatally flawed and have to go, ok then. But I don't think that's what you're saying, so I'm not sure what the point is.
 

UndeadSnoopy

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Of course there will be examples of racism in just about everything. We're not going to ban music because someone sings a racist song, or ban restaurants because someone has a racist restaurant. My point is that there are aspects of southern culture that are quite good and don't have anything to do with racism. It strikes me as throwing out the baby with the bathwater to do so.
It is very tricky trying to do or say the right thing now.

I still fork it up.

I told you I have no tolerance for overboard PC.

But racism is kinda a "know it when you see it" or "educate" me thing.

Don't get me wrong.

I know you are not a racist from your posts.

You are one of the nicest guys here.

As far as songs, restaurants, etc?

I have no desire to watch "Song of the South".

But I have eaten at Chick-fil-A with their history against gay people.
 

DaveXA

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Dave I quoted you
“Rooted” in racism
And’nothing to do with racism ‘
You were not trying to argue ‘have moved past racism’ (which I would still question) but you doubled down of the ‘rooted’ idea several times when I asked for clarity
Fwiw, it just feels like you're playing "gotcha" instead of having a good faith discussion on what i think are some of the positive characteristics of Southern cuture. I'm well aware of the negatives related to the history of racism. That's obvious. With that, I'm bowing out for now.
 

guidomerkinsrules

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Is hospitality rooted in racism? Is music rooted in racism? Are festivals in general rooted in racism? If it's your contention that those things are fatally flawed and have to go, ok then. But I don't think that's what you're saying, so I'm not sure what the point is.
now who's putting words in mouths?
i made no 'fatally flawed and have to go' contentions
i have made no contentions aside from challenging your notion that there are examples of southern culture not rooted in racism or has nothing to do with racism
i contend that there can be nothing from southern culture not rooted in racism since slavery and jim crow touched every aspect of the south

BUT what you seem to be saying is that there are aspects of southern culture that have moved past its racist roots - that would be a more nuanced discussion
but that has not been what your words have said

HOWEVER, we've gone about this plenty and if you want to table it, i'm fine with that
 

UndeadSnoopy

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now who's putting words in mouths?
i made no 'fatally flawed and have to go' contentions
i have made no contentions aside from challenging your notion that there are examples of southern culture not rooted in racism or has nothing to do with racism
i contend that there can be nothing from southern culture not rooted in racism since slavery and jim crow touched every aspect of the south

BUT what you seem to be saying is that there are aspects of southern culture that have moved past its racist roots - that would be a more nuanced discussion
but that has not been what your words have said

HOWEVER, we've gone about this plenty and if you want to table it, i'm fine with that
Do you see why I start stupid threads like "GIF Wars" and "Rumors about other Posters."now.

I find this stuff exhausting.

drink.gif
 

LAhotsauce

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Of course there will be examples of racism in just about everything. We're not going to ban music because someone sings a racist song, or ban restaurants because someone has a racist restaurant. My point is that there are aspects of southern culture that are quite good and don't have anything to do with racism. It strikes me as throwing out the baby with the bathwater to do so.
We are talking about "roots" aren't we? Music isn't rooted in racism. You can find racist music, but music didn't begin on that basis.

And that restaurant has a very specific symbolism to it. It's rooted in the classic southern "mammy", which is part and parcel to "Dixie". Hence the connection. You have to do some serious mental and verbal gymnastics to try and separate the two.

That restaurant is the very symbol of Dixie. And of course it's in the heart of it in Mississippi.
 

DaveXA

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now who's putting words in mouths?
i made no 'fatally flawed and have to go' contentions
i have made no contentions aside from challenging your notion that there are examples of southern culture not rooted in racism or has nothing to do with racism
i contend that there can be nothing from southern culture not rooted in racism since slavery and jim crow touched every aspect of the south

BUT what you seem to be saying is that there are aspects of southern culture that have moved past its racist roots - that would be a more nuanced discussion
but that has not been what your words have said

HOWEVER, we've gone about this plenty and if you want to table it, i'm fine with that
I'll just say that I'm not arguing that southern culture has moved past it's racist roots. But that's pretty obvious. I'm simply saying that music, festivals, food and hospitality that the south is often known for is what I think about in terms of aspects of culture that are positive. I'm speaking strictly in context of what those things are that should be illustrative of any culture.

In other words, being hospitable is a positive thing, is it not? Singing music is a positive thing...etc. That's not denying the racist history of the south. I'm speaking about my own anecdotal experience. Not addressing the whole of southern culture which is a different discussion, which we certainly can have in a new thread. I wasn't intending to really say much beyond that, but you said,"I'll bite" and I took the bait. And here we are.
 

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