do we need Maths (1 Viewer)

guidomerkinsrules

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k, granted it's easy to eyeroll at the engine of this article - arts students protesting needing to take math
but i realize it's a question i've had for awhile - i've mostly been dismissive of the 'who needs math' crowd
but i very much agree with the article saying that it should be taught as 'life skills' (budgeting/money management most glaringly) than as abstract concepts
maybe calcalus should be rolled into physics??


what say you?
 

Dago

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I say it is important because
1) How many high school students end up in the field they want to be in while in high school
2) Mathematics teaches critical thinking and logic

We already have very little education in critical thinking and logic and research from Harvard and UCLA have shown that our society is very lacking in that regard. Removing it would only make that worse
 

xpuma20x

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There's a clear cut difference in "need" between the Algebra I and Algebra II stage in my opinion. Unless you are going into a field that requires heavy math usage, you really have no need for anything beyond Algebra I/Geometry. After that, high school students should be placed in personal financial type math courses that deal with legit every day use. This is all my opinion of course, and my opinion is coming from a place of hatred towards math in general because I was never very good at it.
 

UndeadSnoopy

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I was always drawn to the arts. Literature in particular.

After basic "life" math, I resented being forced to learn advanced math when it wasn't my interest.

But I realize now that a big part of university/college is about expanding the thought process.

Edit: And drunken parties.
 
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guidomerkinsrules

guidomerkinsrules

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I say it is important because
1) How many high school students end up in the field they want to be in while in high school
2) Mathematics teaches critical thinking and logic

We already have very little education in critical thinking and logic and research from Harvard and UCLA have shown that our society is very lacking in that regard. Removing it would only make that worse
the article describes approaching math more theory based than mechanics based
ways that i would approach your concerns
- more coding
- more media literacy (addresses 'critical thinking & logic' and much more applicable to the media based world)
- we'd probably still want AP type classes for those who show mathematic aptitude
 

Dago

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the article describes approaching math more theory based than mechanics based
ways that i would approach your concerns
- more coding
- more media literacy (addresses 'critical thinking & logic' and much more applicable to the media based world)
- we'd probably still want AP type classes for those who show mathematic aptitude
that does not address my concerns...skipping the fundamentals of logic and critical thinking to only focus on a situational based end result is pretty much the opposite of teaching logic and critical thinking

if you understand the fundamentals of logic and critical thinking, you can apply it in pretty much any situation.
 

TheRealJRad

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Those advanced math classes are pretty pointless, in my opinion. Everyone has a calculator in their pocket nowadays, and what practical application does algebra have for the majority of the population? I get the critical thinking part, but there’s also a bit of an affinity for this sort of thinking. I work in IT, it’s my job to be able to think critically and troubleshoot, and I’m pretty good at it, but I barely passed geometry and had to drop “advanced math” my senior year. My brain just doesn’t math. There have to be more applicable ways to accomplish the critical thinking goal. And let’s get some actual life preparation classes in schools. No one prepared me for how many towels I’d have to wash as an adult.
 

Dago

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Those advanced math classes are pretty pointless, in my opinion. Everyone has a calculator in their pocket nowadays, and what practical application does algebra have for the majority of the population? I get the critical thinking part, but there’s also a bit of an affinity for this sort of thinking. I work in IT, it’s my job to be able to think critically and troubleshoot, and I’m pretty good at it, but I barely passed geometry and had to drop “advanced math” my senior year. My brain just doesn’t math. There have to be more applicable ways to accomplish the critical thinking goal. And let’s get some actual life preparation classes in schools. No one prepared me for how many towels I’d have to wash as an adult.
maybe people would have less trouble with math if they learned the fundamentals of logic and critical thinking

I don't know if that is the case....I wonder if there has been any research on it.

I think our society is losing focus of the fact that the act of learning improves the function of the brain. reading and math are being argued out of existence but these are two subjects that do a lot to help general brain function

a lot of the people trying to get rid of reading and math are the same ones who didn't think cursive writing was important and I literally see kids coming out of high school unable to sign their own name on a contract
 

Saint_Ward

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There's a clear cut difference in "need" between the Algebra I and Algebra II stage in my opinion. Unless you are going into a field that requires heavy math usage, you really have no need for anything beyond Algebra I/Geometry. After that, high school students should be placed in personal financial type math courses that deal with legit every day use. This is all my opinion of course, and my opinion is coming from a place of hatred towards math in general because I was never very good at it.
The problem is this. Many kids from 7th to 10th grade take those 2 classes.

So, for the advanced kids doing itnearly, how many 14-15 year olds know for sure if they will be interested in a career that would require math?

You also cant do certain HS science without sufficient math abilities.

Algebra II is probably the highest requires math class. Trig and calc are optional.
 

Goatman Saint

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Problem with most math is that it’s taught as endless problems on a page rather than the understanding of what the theory and problem solving is. Algebra, once you understand the principals of it (finding a missing quantity) and the rules is pretty easy. It’s just taught horribly with no practical work to ground it. Personally I’d be fine with ending math instruction at high school algebra. Now, for those who want to continue, I’m all for it. However with Matlab and other such programs, and zero need to do anything by hand anymore, the instruction has to be on understanding so that when you put the stuff into Matlab or whatever you’re using, you know the answer makes sense.
 

Saint_Ward

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Problem with most math is that it’s taught as endless problems on a page rather than the understanding of what the theory and problem solving is. Algebra, once you understand the principals of it (finding a missing quantity) and the rules is pretty easy. It’s just taught horribly with no practical work to ground it. Personally I’d be fine with ending math instruction at high school algebra. Now, for those who want to continue, I’m all for it. However with Matlab and other such programs, and zero need to do anything by hand anymore, the instruction has to be on understanding so that when you put the stuff into Matlab or whatever you’re using, you know the answer makes sense.
Kids always struggle with word problems. Taking away their understanding of the mechanics of math won't fix that.

Like, I'm amazed (in the bad way) how my daughter can knock out solving X in 15 equations in a row, then totally not see that the 10 word problems after it are the exact same thing, just presented in real world use. I'm like, dear, it's the same thing you've been doing. You just need to pluck out what numbers you need, and what you're calling X.
 

Saint_Ward

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Problem with most math is that it’s taught as endless problems on a page rather than the understanding of what the theory and problem solving is. Algebra, once you understand the principals of it (finding a missing quantity) and the rules is pretty easy. It’s just taught horribly with no practical work to ground it. Personally I’d be fine with ending math instruction at high school algebra. Now, for those who want to continue, I’m all for it. However with Matlab and other such programs, and zero need to do anything by hand anymore, the instruction has to be on understanding so that when you put the stuff into Matlab or whatever you’re using, you know the answer makes sense.
If you can't do a hand calculation, it's hard to trouble shoot if you screwed up your matlab program.
 

Dago

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Here is a great example of the lack of critical thinking and logic. You have a lot of people who say the south Asians have the best results in math and reading so we should just adopt the same curriculum they do and that will solve everything. It has become common to use faulty logic to solve problems by only focusing on a single variable....in this case the curriculum.

Obviously the curriculum is important, but possibly equally important is that teachers in China are treated with far more respect and are allowed to discipline children in a manner that would get them arrested or fired or both here in the United States.

Now I know there is at least a couple posters who, in a debate, would twist what I just said to make it sound like I am ok with teachers abusing children....that is the sort of thing that passes for logic and critical thought to many in this country. I am simply saying that you can't just take a single variable from what goes on in a Chinese classroom, ignore all other variables, and expect to have same results.
 

mikaloyd

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Are we going to start calling it "maths" like the British do?

I'm kind of against this but I dont know why
 

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