Question Do we think Sean Payton was holding us back? (39 Viewers)

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Might get voted down but Drew is what made SP not the other way around. Once his golden goose was gone, SP bailed. SP made some really bad decisions cutting players over and over and accumulated dead money that hurt the Saints. It was made apparent towards the end.
 
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Might get voted down but Drew is what made SP not the other way around. Once his golden goose was gone, SP bailed. SP made some really bad decisions cutting players over and over and accumulated dead money that hurt the Saints. It was made apparent towards the end.
I disagree...I think it was mostly a symbiotic relationship, with a slight nudge to Sean making Drew, neither would've been what they are without the other.
 
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I disagree...I think it was mostly a symbiotic relationship, with a slight nudge to Sean making Drew, neither would've been what they are without the other.
They were both great. Both benefited from the other. Both performed well in absence of one another. It should just be left at that.
 

Sumdude34

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We almost limped to the playoffs last year with a depleted team, so SP is not a bad coach at all.

Still, his offense was outdated for about 3 years and he didn't seem to have any desire to reinvent it like he has done so many times before. Forcing Jameis to run QB like a 41 year old DB was proof of that. There was just so little creativity in his playcalling or scheming, even taking into consideration how bad the playmakers available were.

It looked like someone who has been playing Madden for 7 hours straight and is just bored.
 
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There's so much to take account for and consider. A Championship. Successful drafts and unsuccsesful drafts. The no call. A locker room with an extremely toxic element. The defensive coordinators.

The unprecedented success.

Bountygate. If I had to say any one thing derailed the team from maximizing it's potential it would be bountygate and I can't fault Sean for that. We all know the story with it and I think we can mostly agree.

I don't think Sean held the team back and I think it's a silly question to ask now and I think it's a silly question to ask a year from now.
 
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We almost limped to the playoffs last year with a depleted team, so SP is not a bad coach at all.

Still, his offense was outdated for about 3 years and he didn't seem to have any desire to reinvent it like he has done so many times before. Forcing Jameis to run QB like a 41 year old DB was proof of that. There was just so little creativity in his playcalling or scheming, even taking into consideration how bad the playmakers available were.

It looked like someone who has been playing Madden for 7 hours straight and is just bored.
thank you...I thought for a while I was the only one that saw this. Sean didn't bother to open the offense back up, that was the most disappointing thing about early last season, he was forcing JW to play within what I called the Brees bubble, 15 yards and in with an occasional shot over the top.

I think after the 4 seasons prior 2017-2021 where it was almost all short slants, curls and outs, CSP just simply forgot how to, or just got used to not attacking a defense at all levels.
 
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thank you...I thought for a while I was the only one that saw this. Sean didn't bother to open the offense back up, that was the most disappointing thing about early last season, he was forcing JW to play within what I called the Brees bubble, 15 yards and in with an occasional shot over the top.

I think after the 4 seasons prior 2017-2021 where it was almost all short slants, curls and outs, CSP just simply forgot how to, or just got used to not attacking a defense at all levels.
I don’t think it was that at all. I think Payton realized the best shot of winning last season was not turning the ball over and letting the defense keep us in it. I do think he was gradually opening it up the more Winston proved he could play smart. It’s just, he got hurt before we really got to see the finished product. Only so much you can do with such a weak receiver group, though.

I don’t disagree that maybe Payton was losing some of his creativity, though. The man was burned out. You don’t leave a team with such a strong roster, and where you have so much pull, if you aren’t just flat tired and ready to walk. I do think it had an effect, but I think how the offense was running was more by strategic design. Ball control, stingy defense should’ve had us in the playoffs if not for all the chaos of last season.
 

sfidc3

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Might get voted down but Drew is what made SP not the other way around. Once his golden goose was gone, SP bailed. SP made some really bad decisions cutting players over and over and accumulated dead money that hurt the Saints. It was made apparent towards the end.

I can't disagree with above more.....

1) They made each other, it works both ways.
2) With a disasterously depleted roster most of last year CSP still managed a winning record and were a Rams give away game from the playoffs, that proved to me what I already knew....he is a great HC
3) Why didn't he bail as soon as DB retired?
4) If he decides to come back to coaching there will likely be a bidding war for his services....

The thing I liked most about CSP (and he is not perfect) is the willingness to admit then fix mistakes....He did it when he hired Greg Williams and did it again when he went out and got Jeff Ireland because he realized he sucked at personnel.
 

ilvdsnts

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I think it’s fair to say that like most successful coaches, Sean grew cocky. The whole world knew we needed receivers last year, but Sean thought he could wave his magic wand and turn bs into beignets. Also, did anyone besides SP really believe that Taysom Hill could be a starting qb? I doubt it.
His record shows SP was right. 7-2 as a starter.
 

dtc

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Might get voted down but Drew is what made SP not the other way around. Once his golden goose was gone, SP bailed. SP made some really bad decisions cutting players over and over and accumulated dead money that hurt the Saints. It was made apparent towards the end.

Yeah, he really hurt the Saints winning 4 consecutive NFC West Championships and all those 13 win seasons.

It's been so much worse being a Saints fan since CSP came than when I was a kid.

NOt.
 

whodatphil

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kinda avoided this thread but here's my 2 cents lol

i dont think Sean held us back but I do think he was more inclined to try and get the most out of lesser caliber players strictly off his great playcalling and system.
Now that he's gone, i think DA and Mickey are investing more in the offense to prepare for perhaps a drop off without Sean and Drew around.
Overall I think there are more than one way to win and I like us actually loading up on playmakers for once instead of counting on genius playcalling putting a field of UDFAs in the right position.
 

Judge_Smails

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kinda avoided this thread but here's my 2 cents lol

i dont think Sean held us back but I do think he was more inclined to try and get the most out of lesser caliber players strictly off his great playcalling and system.
Now that he's gone, i think DA and Mickey are investing more in the offense to prepare for perhaps a drop off without Sean and Drew around.
Overall I think there are more than one way to win and I like us actually loading up on playmakers for once instead of counting on genius playcalling putting a field of UDFAs in the right position.
It’s OK to hit a small target with a big gun.

I love Sean and believe he should be in the HOF someday, but he definitely appeared to always choose the challenge of relying on his “offensive genius “ to create great offenses without many elite skill players.

I’d much rather load up on playmakers AND have an offensive genius to rely upon.
 

dtc

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It’s OK to hit a small target with a big gun.

I love Sean and believe he should be in the HOF someday, but he definitely appeared to always choose the challenge of relying on his “offensive genius “ to create great offenses without many elite skill players.

I’d much rather load up on playmakers AND have an offensive genius to rely upon.

So, with years of leading the league on offense and useless defenses to the point that the #1 most worn out phrase on this board being "can he play safety" the complaint is that he didn't acquire enough elite offensive talent.

Isn't that really ignoring the facts of salary cap, Brees's contract and the fact that were it not for slightly better D over a few years we could have won more? Then, when we finally get a D worth a damn we get cheated, bad calls and still 13 win seasons?

HOw fine of a hair do we have to split to acknowledge CSP was the best coach other than Beillicheck for 16 years and that anything against him is silly in context?
 

Judge_Smails

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So, with years of leading the league on offense and useless defenses to the point that the #1 most worn out phrase on this board being "can he play safety" the complaint is that he didn't acquire enough elite offensive talent.

Isn't that really ignoring the facts of salary cap, Brees's contract and the fact that were it not for slightly better D over a few years we could have won more? Then, when we finally get a D worth a damn we get cheated, bad calls and still 13 win seasons?

HOw fine of a hair do we have to split to acknowledge CSP was the best coach other than Beillicheck for 16 years and that anything against him is silly in context?
Did I complain about our future HOF coach?

I made what is called an observation.
 

mdharper

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Nobody is the be all end all.

In a few ways Sean Payton was holding us back. Overall we're better off with him than without him. It's rarely black and white.

Now if Dennis Allen can find and exploit the weaknesses in Sean's game while hanging on to most of the strengths, he'll look like a genius... until opponents exploit weaknesses in his game.
 

dtc

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Did I complain about our future HOF coach?

I made what is called an observation.

Your observation seemed to overlook the actual facts of the situation.

When you say he overlooked skill players because of his offensive genius you overlook salary cap and the fact that there are limits to who and waht you can bring in - even with Loomis.

Then, you say you'd "much rather load up with playmakers" as if CSP simply hated playmakers despite the fact that he led the #1 offense in the NFL about 80% of the time he was coach.

So, my point was your observation was light on context and, yes, you complained by expressing how his arrogance allowed him to alegedly ignore playmakers and how you would prefer to have had actual players when he clearly didn't care.
 

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