Question Do we think Sean Payton was holding us back? (2 Viewers)

[whodatphil]

It’s OK to hit a small target with a big gun.

I love Sean and believe he should be in the HOF someday, but he definitely appeared to always choose the challenge of relying on his “offensive genius “ to create great offenses without many elite skill players.

I’d much rather load up on playmakers AND have an offensive genius to rely upon.

Yeah sometimes I would look at Drew’s weapons and it would remind me of Lebron and a bunch of role players somehow winning. Now it feels like 2018 GS with a shooter all over the court and bench lol

 

[Derek_B]

Do we think Sean Payton was holding us back?​

From winning zero superbowls? Yes.

 

[Saintcd]

Your observation seemed to overlook the actual facts of the situation.

When you say he overlooked skill players because of his offensive genius you overlook salary cap and the fact that there are limits to who and waht you can bring in - even with Loomis.

Then, you say you'd "much rather load up with playmakers" as if CSP simply hated playmakers despite the fact that he led the #1 offense in the NFL about 80% of the time he was coach.

So, my point was your observation was light on context and, yes, you complained by expressing how his arrogance allowed him to alegedly ignore playmakers and how you would prefer to have had actual players when he clearly didn't care.

But he and loomis are responsible for the salary cap. #1 offense in stats. It got the team to the show 1 time with a future HOF QB. Brees at his prime was able to compensate for lack of WR talent after the Moore, meach, henderson and Colton time.

Bottom line he’s a great coach, but not above valid criticism. He and loomis we’re responsible for the cap and either thru not drafting or signing free agent wide receivers neglected the receiving corps for several years. Whether he was cap poor or just flat didn’t want to draft playmakers at Wr, that’s on him.

 

[SaintsMan209]

Don’t forget about Tracy Porter

 

[sfidc3]

Yeah, he really hurt the Saints winning 4 consecutive NFC West Championships and all those 13 win seasons.

It's been so much worse being a Saints fan since CSP came than when I was a kid.

NOt.

Yup, I'm 58 so I remember the really bad to bad Saints teams...and I wanted Mora and Haslett gone years before they quit or were fired....

You are calling it correctly. Sean loved, projects and multiple personnel sets. We only recently started to use high draft choices on O line men. And we have fielded more un drafted game day players, than most any other team. Sean loved a bargain.

This gets back to my point of CSP's ability to recognize his own weaknesses and correct them. Jeff Ireland likes to draft lineman and he typically hits more than he misses....

 

[Zooted]

Would we have signed these players if he was still the coach? Im seeing a lot of people on twitter sayin, he made have been holding us back.

More like Goodell held us back

 

[Saintly Marine]

Ok lets look at the 2 side by Side to sum it up quickly without bashing each other and the Coaches.
1. Sean Payton {offensive minded} Believes whole heartly in his offense to get the job done, so he goes 85% Defensive Drafts
2. Dennis Allen {defensive minded} Believes whole heartly in his defense to get the job done, so he goes 95% Offensive Draft

Thing is you try to limit your weak spots. really convey the above difference. Suppose DA went 95% defense what would that suggest? His Defense needs a lot of help. Vice versa with Payton draft, except Sometimes honesty with the Ego is hard to admit. We knew we needed help on Offense, yet we failed to get the #2 WR.

Give DA 3 drafts to see if he balances each side of the ball. Then we will know where we are headed.

 

[Saintly Marine]

They were both great. Both benefited from the other. Both performed well in absence of one another. It should just be left at that.

EXACTLY!!!! Mic Drop

 

[SaintPancake]

The only knock you can really have against Payton was not addressing the defense when Brees was in his prime. Eventually he made changes to the defense but at that point it was too late.

 

[Mississippi Saints Fan]

The only knock you can really have against Payton was not addressing the defense when Brees was in his prime. Eventually he made changes to the defense but at that point it was too late.

Fair point. That seems to have been his main issue for about a full decade.

 

[dtc]

The only knock you can really have against Payton was not addressing the defense when Brees was in his prime. Eventually he made changes to the defense but at that point it was too late.

There's a lot of moving pieces in this equation, but we were a bad call, a rams collapse and a stupid missed play away from the game 3 times in the past 5 years.

CSP can't play the games himself nor can he officiate. All he can do is put us in position to win and hope it works out. If it was easy, the Falcons would do it.

 

[latechsaint26]

There were plenty of “fans” that thought Brees was holding the team back his last 2 or 3 seasons. The Payton and Brees era spawned a whole generation of spoiled fans with totally unrealistic expectations

Some 20 year old clown faced you. Probably doesn’t even remember 2012 suspension.

 

[BayouSAINTJoe]

Some 20 year old clown faced you. Probably doesn’t even remember 2012 suspension.

I clownfaced him....and I'm 40.

Once Brees became unable to make all the throws, he became a limiting factor that we had to work around. He still was able to do some things well, but there are things that were a capability of 31 other teams that he could no longer do. We made it work in spite of that, but if we had that capability that he lacked, we could've gone further than where we went his last 3 seasons.

Does it not make me a Saints fan for being able to see that? That's why the clown was given.

 

[i_am_error]

...are you saying he should have been fired or something?

Every coach has drawbacks. Even Belichick.

 

[dtc]

I clownfaced him....and I'm 40.

Once Brees became unable to make all the throws, he became a limiting factor that we had to work around. He still was able to do some things well, but there are things that were a capability of 31 other teams that he could no longer do. We made it work in spite of that, but if we had that capability that he lacked, we could've gone further than where we went his last 3 seasons.

Does it not make me a Saints fan for being able to see that? That's why the clown was given.

I think you're overplaying Brees's diminished skills to an extreme.

He still threw for 70% completion and won games with a hugely successful offense.

Not being able to launch it 70 yards didn't prevent us from winning anything including 4 straight NFC South titles and more games than all but one other team over the past 5 including last year's 9 and 7.