Question Do we think Sean Payton was holding us back? (2 Viewers)

[Eman5805]

If we have a successful season, or even win the SB, watch the folks who seem to thrive in negativity like maggots wriggle forth to disparage Payton’s accomplishments.

 

[Saint Spud]

Exactly……context. Everyone is harping on what he did in totality. Yes, he resurrected a failing organization, yes he gave the city something to be proud about, yes he gave us the best 16 year stretch we have ever seen, and yes he brought us our 1 and only championship. Now, no one is perfect, that’s a given, but there were times he took too long making necessary changes. Those years when he kept certain coaches too long, before he purged them. That is a level of holding a team back. Taking too long to put adequate pieces on the defense during Drew’s prime years. That’s a level of holding us back. How long did it take to address the CB, S, and LB spots???? It was so dang ridiculous that questions regarding certain positions became a meme. “But can he play CB”??? “But can he play Safety”??? How many draft classes did we throw away before he finally brought someone in as qualified as Ireland? That’s a level of holding a team back. Once he finally got a defense, Drew was long in the tooth (still had a little left) and racking up injuries. I’ve already expressed how many times he went at it with Goodell (which I loved and will forever love), but that comes with repercussions. Should we revisit the discrepancies in PI penalties for us and against us? Should we revisit the No call? The league went to extremes to hurt us. Go at Goodell and he made us pay. That’s a level of holding us back. SP was a great motivator, but what about those times we lost to inferior opponents and killed our chance at home field advantage in the playoffs? It’s comical how many times we lost to rookie QBs, garbage QBs, second year QBs, or backup QBs. If you play down to your opponent, when you have the vastly superior team, then that’s a level of holding your team back. There were times when we were unstoppable at home and really needed HFA.

Now, with all this being said…no one is saying that he’s not an elite coach. No one is saying that we would’ve been better off without him. No one is saying that he wasn’t one of us. What we are saying is that there were some areas that he held us back with. He was great enough to mask many deficiencies and he made chicken salad out of chicken , but a lot of the chicken came by his own hands.

Now that I’ve ruffled some chicken feathers, have fun.

By saying “hold us back” the implication is that we would have been better without him.

Are there areas where he wasn’t quite as strong as others? Sure. But they were far outweighed by the areas he was better than others.

So…no. He didn’t hold us back. However you want to slice it, phrase it, etc.

 

[Goatman Saint]

yeah im seeing a lot of people on social bashing him for saying " I like our WR room"

Payton never dissed his players or threw them under the bus. He knew what he had, but he never spoke badly publicly

 

[Holy Avenger]

Would we have signed these players if he was still the coach? Im seeing a lot of people on twitter sayin, he made have been holding us back.

I don't think he held us back, but considering the outcome of one game was fixed and there's a stat out there that shows that our opponents had the fewest penalties called against them for four straight years, it will at least be interesting to see if this is just going to be a permanent thing with the team or what.

 

[football]

4? Try 7. 06, 09, 11, 17, 18, 19, & 20. 7 in the 16 years of the CSP era, after having won on TWO in the entire 39 years of franchise history prior to him.

I meant 4 straight

 

[SweetT]

By saying “hold us back” the implication is that we would have been better without him.

Are there areas where he wasn’t quite as strong as others? Sure. But they were far outweighed by the areas he was better than others.

So…no. He didn’t hold us back. However you want to slice it, phrase it, etc.

That’s how you interpret it. He was our coach and he was what we were going to roll with good or bad, until he called it quits….he earned that much. There was no going out and getting a different coach bc he was still a great head coach (like I’ve already stated many times already). He just lacked in some areas. So, with that being said, yeah…some areas he held us back.

 

[dtc]

That was remarkable, but at the same time, if our talent is really that good, it should have been able to over come 2-3 losses we had. Those type of games happen way too often during Paytons years.

Its not just now that people is asking the question if he has held us back, Ive questioned some things for years because his coaching in games at times is suspect, sometimes he hits it out of the park, other times he will let coaches on the hot seat or very little experience just make him look silly, then the playoffs comes and he has no decent plan and starts losing to teams that have no business in the next game. Example like Vikings winning those 2 years as of recently, they go and get destroyed by Eagles and 49ers in the next round, teams I know the Saints would of played better, but seeing that really makes you question some things. SP has a history of this happening.

There are 31 teams with over $6 billion in salaries just for players that are trying to beat us. Add in coaching and overhead and there's a 40bn industry with 32 teams.

One team cannot win all the time. One break. One miscalculation. One risk that fails and you lose.

Questioning CSP for 10e decisions is stupid when the other 10,000 risks he took paid off.

Losing to the Vikings wasn't Payton's fault nor was it guaranteed we would have won the following week, but the argument you're making that you know we would have beaten the next opponent completely negates the complaint against CSP.

For us to beat the next team, it would have been his fault. Just like last season when we beat people with no players.

You take the bad lumps with the good fortune and in our case, the fortunes of the Saints since 06 have been all on Sean and they've been very good.

 

[Saint Spud]

That’s how you interpret it. He was our coach and he was what we were going to roll with good or bad, until he called it quits….he earned that much. There was no going out and getting a different coach bc he was still a great head coach (like I’ve already stated many times already). He just lacked in some areas. So, with that being said, yeah…some areas he held us back.

When you ask is someone “holding us back,” there aren’t many other ways to interpret it.

And judging by most of the replies in this thread, that’s how pretty much everyone interpreted it.

If you’re asking “were there areas Sean Payton could have been better?” Sure. He isn’t perfect.

But no. In no world did he “hold us back.”

 

[Saintslfc13]

For the most part, I agree, but Mickey is the boss. Mickey didn't just hand over the keys to DA nor did he to CSP and it's probable to a certainty that Loomis is severely underrated in terms of the successes of the past 17 years.

Would CSP have done the same things this offseason, maybe not. We'll never know, but Mickey did what Mickey does and that's give us a shot to win it all every freaking year.

This retirement didn't sprout out of thin air overnight. CSP deserves credit for not only what he did in the past, but the position he left us in for the future.

For all who are missing it, rebuilding in NOLA is what we just did. And even after the incredibly difficult year we had last year, we will be better without suffering the misery of 3 and 14 or Falconhood.

I think we're on the same page, I wasn't trying to take anything away from Loomis and/or Ireland. I think keeping them around is actually part of that legacy I alluded about. I was just trying to temper the idea that Payton held us back, I can see why some people feel that way but I don't think it's true. More importantly I think it's crystal clear that noone in the current Front Office thinks it's a thing. We wouldn't be making this signings if we did, and I for one am happy for it.

 

[Green-Ghost]

Would we have signed these players if he was still the coach? Im seeing a lot of people on twitter sayin, he made have been holding us back.

I learned a long time ago, never trust Twitter. They sometimes make statements, like this one, without any facts. I think they just want to stir people up.

People in general have become so selfish and self centered. These Twitter people maybe trying to get attention.

 

[KCWhoDat]

NO

 

[parlorcitysaint]

If there was one thing that I could point to during Payton's tenure that really chafed me, it was him mocking the vikes fans, doing the skol chant when he thought the game was in the bag. You know... just before the Minneapolis miracle happened.

Karma's a female dog.

 

[Saint Jack]

This kind of questions can only be asked after five seasons or so to compare, not five months after hiring a new coach.

 

[srcampbell]

I think it’s fair to say that like most successful coaches, Sean grew cocky. The whole world knew we needed receivers last year, but Sean thought he could wave his magic wand and turn bs into beignets. Also, did anyone besides SP really believe that Taysom Hill could be a starting qb? I doubt it. As a consequence, we had to suffer through a pointless qb competition last year. Thankfully, JW had the forethought to organize his own practices along with sharing practice snaps with Hill. Sean was the greatest coach in Saints history, but as soon as his a** hit the door AD the FO went to work doing the things SP wouldn’t have done.

 

[SigFreudianSlip]