Question Do we think Sean Payton was holding us back? (2 Viewers)

[SonOfNOLA]

If the OP was more specific about what areas Payton may have held the team back from winning more beyond the wildcard & divisional rounds, then the answer would be yes with better context. Sean Payton brought more success to the franchise than the franchise has ever seen. But the areas that were overall neglected did prevent the team from having more postseason success that the team should have achieved had those areas been addressed.

It’s obvious Payton is the winningest regular season coach with multiple division titles during his last several years here. But what could have been if many of the 2016-2021 1st round picks were invested in offensive skill positions plus signing top tier FA starters and top FA depth on offense? That doesn’t make him a bad coach because of questioning if he held the team back. But he could have made his job a lot easier and been even more postseason successful had we not settle for low tier/older FA veterans and undrafted WR2/WR3/TE2/RB2 on offense as much as we did while Payton was HC. Coaching hid a lot of the undrafted players weaknesses with great QB and great playcalling during the regular season, but not investing in premium offensive skill players always showed during the postseason.

Teams we faced in the postseason seemed to have a 2nd RB, 2nd WR and 2nd TE that was nearly or equally talented as their main starter. We knew our elite RB1 and elite WR1 would miss multiple games a season due to injury and still never invested in an elite RB2 and elite WR2. Last season would have turned out a lot differently if we had those kind of players behind AK and MT when they missed games/the season.

 

[fahad]

He was the best thing that happened to the Saints besides Drew Brees..The answer is clear. NOOOO

 

[Gumbo's Dad]

Payton let the defense have so many top draft picks to get us where we are. Also, Dennis Allen became a top coordinator under Payton. Payton helped develop Michael Thomas, Alvin Kamara and many others. It’s only without Drew Brees that you absolutely need more talent at wide receiver and it’s been one season without him.

Did Payton have his blind spots and perhaps stubbornness? Sure but to say he held us back is just inaccurate.

Agree with you mostly. However, if Sean had addressed wr2 earlier we would not have wasted Drew's last year's. Sean is a genius in some ways but he could not turn lead wr's into gold.

 

[Gumbo's Dad]

I feel like we should see how the next season or two pans out before coming to these sorts of conclusions. Remember, the original plan was to break the bank for Watson. We pushed a lot of money to next year to make that happen, and when it didn’t, we had a lot of money that we chose to go ahead and use. It’s one of those deals where we’re certainly all-in, but I’m not sure how things end up long-term.

We got some great playmakers. There’s no doubt about it, and I’m super excited. I just don’t think we need to start making these kind of statements about Payton just yet. He had his flaws, but look at how many winning seasons and the SB he brought us. Let’s just wait and see.

I am glad you remember this. I prefer Jameis to Watson and think the money was far better spent adding more playmakers (ironically from LSU).

 

[RJ in Lafayette]

No. In fact, absolutely not. If Payton six months from now indicates that he wants to return to coaching, there will be a line of teams wanting to hire him, even though it might mean giving the Saints one or two high draft picks as compensation. Dennis Allen has not been a serious contender for another head-coaching job since he was dismissed by the Raiders. Indeed, my concern this year is that we are going to learn the hard way the gap between Payton and Allen as head coach.

My one criticism of Payton and the Saints organization is that Payton would have been better served with a general manager who was less aggressive in personnel decisions and who could tell him no during and before the draft. Bill Belichick in New England is still a tremendous coach, but he has to overcome the mediocre job Bill Belichick the general manager has done for a number of years. At times, Payton the head coach was poorly served by Payton the de facto general manager.

 

[los226]

There’s a reason Brady really wants to work with Payton. He’s a really good head coach.

 

[4T L4ST]

Ingrates.

 

[Saintslfc13]

I think the idea that he held us back is absolutely ridiculous and he's a big reason we decided to largely keep the band together regarding coaching staff, adding a few specialized coaches to the mix rather than changing things up entirely. We're very much trying to continue and build on the culture he's created during his time here rather than uproot it. To be able to pull off a winning season last year despite the record injuries all over plus the QB situation, the ridiculous circumstances around the Miami game, and our WR corps being largely ineffective shows how good of a coach the guy is. Sure maybe some better decisions could've been made regarding the WR position and a lot of people are very confused about Taysom's contract but no one is perfect. We were a darkhorse candidate for a playoff run whose defense was peaking at the right time to do some damage despite all that.

Now I also don't know if we'd be making the same signings with Payton still at HC, not necessarily because we wouldn't still be in win now mode but because there might be a more long term look at things if he was still here. Allen being a guy on his second gig, replacing a likely HOF head coach, I think there's a big desire there for all parties still around to show we're going to be competitive this year without him. The media largely thinking we're crazy for trying to compete rather than blowing it up might play a part in that a bit as well (though hopefully not too much). If Sean's still here maybe that sense of urgency isn't, or maybe he falls in love with one of the rookie QBs in a way that no one on our staff currently did and decides he doesn't mind taking some time to see what's there at the pro-level.

 

[AgnesT]

If Dennis Allen turns out to be half the coach Payton was I'll be happy.

 

[dtc]

I like SP.

But over the years their comes so many times where you question him, so many times he gets out coached by an inferior coach. I am not saying Dennis Allen is going to tear it up, but I watch other teams and then I watch the Saints, its like how come Sean Payton cant do much with the offensive talent he has but other coaches with lesser offensive talent can? Shannahan in San Fran for example, or Titans under Vrabel, heck even Cowboys under McCarthy with freaking Prescott is better than anything Payton was putting together after Winston went down.

I hate to say it, but I think we going to eventually find out that Sean Payton is nothing much without Drew Brees, and maybe in due time we may end finding out he is not as responsible for drafting players like we thought, and it was the FO.

The entire premise of this post overlooks last year's 9 and 7 with 4 QBs, a hurricane, covid and wins over teams due solely to CSP's scheming.

 

[dtc]

I think the idea that he held us back is absolutely ridiculous and he's a big reason we decided to largely keep the band together regarding coaching staff, adding a few specialized coaches to the mix rather than changing things up entirely. We're very much trying to continue and build on the culture he's created during his time here rather than uproot it. To be able to pull off a winning season last year despite the record injuries all over plus the QB situation, the ridiculous circumstances around the Miami game, and our WR corps being largely ineffective shows how good of a coach the guy is. Sure maybe some better decisions could've been made regarding the WR position and a lot of people are very confused about Taysom's contract but no one is perfect. We were a darkhorse candidate for a playoff run whose defense was peaking at the right time to do some damage despite all that.

Now I also don't know if we'd be making the same signings with Payton still at HC, not necessarily because we wouldn't still be in win now mode but because there might be a more long term look at things if he was still here. Allen being a guy on his second gig, replacing a likely HOF head coach, I think there's a big desire there for all parties still around to show we're going to be competitive this year without him. The media largely thinking we're crazy for trying to compete rather than blowing it up might play a part in that a bit as well (though hopefully not too much). If Sean's still here maybe that sense of urgency isn't, or maybe he falls in love with one of the rookie QBs in a way that no one on our staff currently did and decides he doesn't mind taking some time to see what's there at the pro-level.

For the most part, I agree, but Mickey is the boss. Mickey didn't just hand over the keys to DA nor did he to CSP and it's probable to a certainty that Loomis is severely underrated in terms of the successes of the past 17 years.

Would CSP have done the same things this offseason, maybe not. We'll never know, but Mickey did what Mickey does and that's give us a shot to win it all every freaking year.

This retirement didn't sprout out of thin air overnight. CSP deserves credit for not only what he did in the past, but the position he left us in for the future.

For all who are missing it, rebuilding in NOLA is what we just did. And even after the incredibly difficult year we had last year, we will be better without suffering the misery of 3 and 14 or Falconhood.

 

[NewOrleansBoy]

Might as well say Drew was holding us back, too

I won’t say that he did.

But I can say, with Payton + Brady, the Saints would have won another championship that year

 

[dtc]

I won’t say that he did.

But I can say, with Payton + Brady, the Saints would have won another championship that year

Not if Brady misses 7 games. No way.

 

[HouseCall]

Short answer - no. He pulled everything he could from his players last year and delivered what I’d argue was his greatest coaching performance.

A deeper dive might yield some different views.

One area that Coach Payton maybe “held us back” was his adversarial relationship with Goodell and the officials. We all know we never got a fair shake with officiating and his being off the sideline may lead to more equitably officiated games.

Also, some might argue that his tendency to “get cute” with his play calls and personnel packages could have negatively impacted momentum and drives in selected games.

But the overall answer, in my opinion, is that Payton always excelled with the personnel he had available to him.

 

[Taker597]

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