Do You Say the Pledge of Allegiance? (1 Viewer)

FootballLady

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I realize that a lot of us don't have the opportunity to say it as adults so this may be a non-issue for most of you, but for those of us who teach in private or parochial schools the Pledge is still a part of our day. I haven't been able to say the Pledge in good conscience since the Senate report on torture came out several years ago and my Principal has been fine with that since I'm still standing and being respectful. There are some parents, though, who seem to be upset by this. My question to you all is not about my situation, per se, as my job isn't in peril or anything. What I'd like to know is if given the opportunity, would you still say it?
 

rajncajn

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The words literally tell you what the flag represents- the republic (for which it stands).
"I pledge allegiance to the flag AND to the republic for which it stands."

"AND"... Representing separate things...

What does the flag represent?
https://statesymbolsusa.org/symbol-official-item/national-us/state-flag/american-flag
Thirteen stripes represent the original thirteen colonies that declared independence from England; fifty stars symbolize the current 50 United States. White signifies purity and innocence, red signifies valor and bravery; and blue signifies vigilance, perseverance, and justice.
http://www.usflag.org/iamtheflag.html
My white stripes stand for liberty and equality for all. My blue is the blue of heaven, loyalty, and faith. I represent these eternal principles: liberty, justice, and humanity. I embody American freedom: freedom of speech, religion, assembly, the press, and the sanctity of the home.

As you see me silhouetted against the peaceful skies of my country, remind yourself that I am the flag of your country, that I stand for what you are - no more, no less.
Guard me well, lest your freedom perish from the earth.

Dedicate your lives to those principles for which I stand: "One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
Why am I even having this conversation? I honestly don't get why or how people don't understand this concept. I guess you've never actually taken the time to reflect upon what you were actually saying when reciting the pledge? Just repeating the words with no real understanding of or care for what they meant?
 
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Yoweigh

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I honestly don't get why or how people don't understand this concept. I guess you've never actually taken the time to reflect upon what you were actually saying when reciting the pledge? Just repeating the words with no real understanding of or care for what they meant?
What a presumptuous attitude... When I recite the pledge it means whatever I want it to mean. All of that bad poetry and symbolism you linked to sounds made up anyways.
 

rajncajn

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What a presumptuous attitude... When I recite the pledge it means whatever I want it to mean. All of that bad poetry and symbolism you linked to sounds made up anyways.
A presumptuous attitude? What do you think reciting the pledge is supposed to be for? It's not meant to be some robotic, brainwashing oath as some have made it out to be here. It's meant to be a reflection on what it means to be an American and the suffering and sacrifices SO many have made to provide you that right. It's an individual pledge to stand for and respect the ideals the country and it's flag represents.

It means what you want it to mean? That's great! It means what I want it to mean too. The links I provided are simply representations of those very ideals from people who understand what the flag represents. You are right, the flag is supposed to represent you and what values you hold as an American. It represents every one of us, but that is just the point. It represents US, not just a piece of cloth with a bunch of stars and a few colors. Not a bunch of overpaid, bloated, bickering bureaucrats in Washington. I pledge allegiance to you and every other person of this country from the time it was founded. To stand and defend and respect your ideals and freedoms. That's what the flag represents.
 
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I didnt do it in high school(I was forced to stand but I wouldn’t say the words). Was a different time even only a decade ago.

I also don’t stand for the National Anthem. Paying my taxes and voting are enough “patriotic” duties for me.
 

DadsDream

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I have never failed to recite it, never mocked it, always said it with reverence and conviction, thousands upon thousands of times at all kinds of public meetings and events.

I've also raised my right hand and vowed to "support, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic" more than once. That oath carries far more weight and consequences than the pledge does, but the two do go hand-in-hand.
 
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FootballLady

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I have never failed to recite it, never mocked it, always said it with reverence and conviction, thousands upon thousands of times at all kinds of public meetings and events.
I used to.
 

rajncajn

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I used to.
Government policies and politics shouldn't be allowed to sway you from the ideals that this country were built on. That is something that we can never allow to be changed or diminished.

Saying the pledge and honoring the national anthem are simply reminders for me of what is important about being us as Americans. Not in the words that are spoken, but in the meaning they give and the emotion they invoke. Words are just words. They're meaningless until you give them purpose and emotion.
 

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Reminds me of a personal favorite George Carlin line:
"I leave symbols for the symbol-minded."

Stopped saying it 5 or so years ago. The flag/country stands for many things to many different people in the US (and the world), and I don't need to regurgitate someone's flowery rhetoric on what it meant to them. There's a reason it's predominantly done when you're a child.
 

rajncajn

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Reminds me of a personal favorite George Carlin line:
"I leave symbols for the symbol-minded."

Stopped saying it 5 or so years ago. The flag/country stands for many things to many different people in the US (and the world), and I don't need to regurgitate someone's flowery rhetoric on what it meant to them. There's a reason it's predominantly done when you're a child.
Of course there's a reason. You make it sound like some ominously dubious trick to have children recite the pledge. Like their youthful fragility is being taken advantage of to warp them into mindless little, America loving drones.
You're taught all kinds of things when you're a child. Most of what you learn that molds you into the person you are, you learn when you are a child.
 

WhoDatPhan78

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Of course there's a reason. You make it sound like some ominously dubious trick to have children recite the pledge. Like their youthful fragility is being taken advantage of to warp them into mindless little, America loving drones.
You're taught all kinds of things when you're a child. Most of what you learn that molds you into the person you are, you learn when you are a child.
I’d suggest we need to do a better and more thorough job of indoctrinating our children.

We need to be more nuanced with it though. The pledge should be replaced with a daily reminder of what liberty and equality mean. Along with things like the importance of freedom of speech and the value of a free press an an extra government check.

We should also remind our children about the responsibility that comes with freedom like recognition of propaganda. The government can’t regulate propaganda in a free society, each of us are responsible for defending our own minds.
 

rajncajn

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I’d suggest we need to do a better and more thorough job of indoctrinating our children.

We need to be more nuanced with it though. The pledge should be replaced with a daily reminder of what liberty and equality mean. Along with things like the importance of freedom of speech and the value of a free press an an extra government check.

We should also remind our children about the responsibility that comes with freedom like recognition of propaganda. The government can’t regulate propaganda in a free society, each of us are responsible for defending our own minds.
Couldn't agree more!
 

DavidM

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It's hard for me to argue what the benefits of organized recitations of the pledge are, but maybe looking at it from the other way, what could the consequences be to our country if we didn't recite it?

I can't remember the last time I had a reason to say it, and it's not something I think about, or have strong feelings about when presented with the opportunity. I feel neither pride nor opposition towards saying it; mostly it just seems like a mundane ritual, and not particularly necessary.
 

rajncajn

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It's hard for me to argue what the benefits of organized recitations of the pledge are, but maybe looking at it from the other way, what could the consequences be to our country if we didn't recite it?

I can't remember the last time I had a reason to say it, and it's not something I think about, or have strong feelings about when presented with the opportunity. I feel neither pride nor opposition towards saying it; mostly it just seems like a mundane ritual, and not particularly necessary.
Everything has to be built from a foundation and far too often parents are not present in the sense of guidance for their children. Maybe they will get something out of it, maybe they will see it the same way as you. Either way it's the first thing they learn about what our country represents. As long as they apply that to their life and those ideals are seeded within them it really makes no difference if the words themselves remain heart felt for them.
 

mt15

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I don’t know, when children recite the Pledge are they being taught what the words mean? I don’t remember having any instruction although it’s been a long time. We just memorized it. I don’t have anything against saying it but I have to wonder if it’s providing any meaningful instruction to the kids who recite it.
 

rajncajn

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I don’t know, when children recite the Pledge are they being taught what the words mean? I don’t remember having any instruction although it’s been a long time. We just memorized it. I don’t have anything against saying it but I have to wonder if it’s providing any meaningful instruction to the kids who recite it.
Early elementary is great for learning the words by repetition. The structure and unity in something that we should all share equally in is very helpful as well. But I agree with WDP78 in that when kids minds start to develop a little more they should do a more thorough job of helping the kids understand what they are pledging, understand where we came from and what ideals the country was founded on.
 

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