Saints Does the Saints Locker Room want Jameis Winston or Taysom Hill? (1 Viewer)

Since you asked, Many reasons honestly. Mainly just based on what I saw from Taysom Hill on the field as a quarterback last year. I don't share the opinions of most around here about his quarterback play last year being sub standard. I share the opinions Sean Payton had of Taysom in an interview after his third or fourth start which is and I'm quoting SP "he's an ASCENDING player". I also share SP views that Taysom is a Steve Young mixed with a Toni Romo. Earlier this off-season in an interview SP said that Taysom has Steve Young talent but he also gives you some Toni Romo early in his career where there's potential for a play to go either way, it could be a great player or a back breaking mistake. I think the Romo type things can be coached away like it was with Romo. The fact that Payton compared him to 2 great starting QBs in the NFL tells me he still sees Taysom as a starting caliber qb in the NFL which I do as well based on what I saw on the field last year.

What I saw from Taysom first and far most was IMPROVEMENT. He improved tremendously with his mechanics and footwork. He stood tall and had patience in the pocket. Sometimes he had too much patience but sacks are going to be a part of the process for Jameis or Taysom because neither are going to be dink and dunk artist like Drew. They both are going to look to let plays develop down field because they can throw the ball down field. This is why I'm not bothered by AK being less involved in the passing game. AK high involvement in the passing game was a by product of What Drew couldn't do anymore. I'm hoping those days are gone for good no matter who starts because that means we have a more dynamic offense that doesn't need to run 10 screens a game.

Jameis may have a bigger arm and can stretch the field more vertically but Taysom his the far better and more accurate intermediate passer. Taysom is a lot more accurate and reads defenses a lot better than he gets credit for around here. You don't complete 73% of your passes in the nfl including 85% on third down while not being a dink and dunk artist by not being able to read a defense or throw accurate passes. That's just not reality.



Taysom spreads the ball around. (against Atl he hit 6 different receivers in his first start, the next week against Denver he hit 6 different guys in 9 completions, 7 against atl the second time and 9 against the eagles).

Taysom was good on the $ down which is third down. Under SP a high third down conversion rate has always been the signature of Saints teams when we are good. SP teams are efficient on third downs. In his 4 starts last year Taysom was 29-34 85% for 263 yards and 18 first downs and had a 96.4 qb rating on third down. The saints converted just under 44% on third downs with Taysom as the starter. The bucs were 44% on 3rd down last year. The year we won the superbowl we were 43% in 09.

Taysom misses reads but he doesn't make bad decisions on where to go with the ball. I trust his decision making more than I do Winston based on what I saw from Taysom last year compared to what I have seen from Jameis up to this point. I have seen improvement in Taysom's game. I need to see that from Jameis, I won't assume he has improved and is no longer the qb he has always been until I see it.


Taysom is the more dynamic player. Taysom averaged 53 more passing yards than Lamar Jackson last year and just 12 less yards on the ground in his four starts. He averaged more total yards per game as a starter than Lamar Jackson last year. The only team that's won more games than the Ravens since Lamar took over is the Chiefs. I personally feel from what I saw last year Taysom a better passer than Lamar because Lamar regressed as a passer last year (and I'm a huge Lamar fan saying this). Taysom is the mold of qb the NFL is moving towards, That's why SP has always been enamored with Hill. So to me if Jameis doesn't show you in training camp that he is now Peyton Manning 2.0 I go with the guy who is the better decision maker, more dynamic and has proven he can play winning football.

Like Sean Payton said in an interview with Jim Rome the week of the eagles game, he tells his QBs "ultimately your job is to win, win, win and win again and Taysom has done that".
I agree. I think Taysom just needs to clean up a few things and this will be a very good competition. I would like for Taysom to improve his deep ball. I think it hangs in the air too long. The second issue is throwing the ball with anticipation. He waits to see the receiver open which makes him take unnecessary sacks and causes his deep balls to fall short. I also agree with Taysom missing a few reads. I am not sure if he can clean all this up in one off season but if he can this will be a good competition.

However overall I think the players want Jameis to start.
 
Right and I understand you throwing alot of stuff out there. If you banking on something Sean Payton says I take it as talk. He said he liked Taysom, but he thinks the world of Jameis. What happens when the defense is not playing its best and the Saints get behind. You really think Taysom can dig them out of a hole. I don't think so. He played against the worst secondary last year in the Atlanta Falcons and against a Denver Broncos team that didn't even have a freaking QB 😂. Against the Eagles the whole team didn't look good, but when the game was on the line, Taysom couldn't make the throws to win the game. Thats what its all about. When adversity comes your way, can you overcome it. I think Taysom in multiple roles gives the team a better chance to win. Not him as your full time starting QB for 17 games. Hope he can prove me wrong. I just don't see it.
Right and I understand you throwing alot of stuff out there. If you banking on something Sean Payton says I take it as talk. He said he liked Taysom, but he thinks the world of Jameis. What happens when the defense is not playing its best and the Saints get behind. You really think Taysom can dig them out of a hole. I don't think so. He played against the worst secondary last year in the Atlanta Falcons and against a Denver Broncos team that didn't even have a freaking QB 😂. Against the Eagles the whole team didn't look good, but when the game was on the line, Taysom couldn't make the throws to win the game. Thats what its all about. When adversity comes your way, can you overcome it. I think Taysom in multiple roles gives the team a better chance to win. Not him as your full time starting QB for 17 games. Hope he can prove me wrong. I just don't see it.
I don't know about what you saw because I saw a player that handled adversity very well in the second half of that game. The first two drives of the second half down 17-0 went touchdown, touchdown to make it a 17-14 game immediately. On those drives Taysom went 4/5 and 3/4 finishing of the last td drive with a deep shot to Sanders for a TD. People bring up the Eagles game as some kind of validation that Taysom failed as a quarterback and I don't get that thinking. It don't matter who your qb is, when a team loses the turnover battle, gives up 250 yards on the ground and misses two gimme fgs that team is going to lose 99.9% of the time even if your qb is Tom Brady, Drew Brees or Peyton Manning.🥱
 
I don't know why people think a starting job in the NFL is just supposed to be handed to someone instead of earned.
I don't think that @ all. My point was CSP seemed to be quite adamant about bringing Jameis back even after the "improved" play u saw from Hill. And drafting a rookie QB in the 1st 3-4 rds & relying on him for legit competition wouldn'tve been just handing the starting gig over considering how pro ready some rookie QBs are starting to be
 
And yet Winston was still retained. Hill still just hasn't convinced enough & it shows with the rumblings of disagreement from the locker room over the decision to start him. Why wouldn't CSP just lean on a draft pick for comp if he were so enamored with Hill @ QB?

Teddy was retained for two years. And had better contracts than we’ve given Winston. Retaining on this contract doesn’t mean anything.
 
Agreed, but that was Taysom Hill running the Drew Brees Saints offense until Brees got back... If Hill wins the starting job, the offense will change to suit him and his strengths. JMO
IMO, Drews offense IS Sean Payton’s offense! CSP is one of the the best O minds in the game! One of the reasons why is he’s always shown the willingness to adjust his O to play to Drews strengths, and the ability of others on O as well.

Put players in positions to do what they do best!

I think no matter who’s the QB, about 70% or so of the O will stay the same. The run game will stay mostly the same. The rhythm n uptempo style will stay the same. The short passing game will still be there. The rest will be those adjustments n possibly some new “tweaks” made based on the talent he has.

Hopefully some of those will produce a few more plays like this:




To this day, I STILL say it was the “prettiest” deep ball Drew’s ever thrown!!!

JMO
 
If said coach keeps insisting that said player continuously throw passes beyond the intermediate range then it certainly increases probability

So the QB has no say in the equation? He just has to throw it into double/triple coverage because the coach tells him to throw the ball into double/triple coverage?
 
I agree. I think Taysom just needs to clean up a few things and this will be a very good competition. I would like for Taysom to improve his deep ball. I think it hangs in the air too long. The second issue is throwing the ball with anticipation. He waits to see the receiver open which makes him take unnecessary sacks and causes his deep balls to fall short. I also agree with Taysom missing a few reads. I am not sure if he can clean all this up in one off season but if he can this will be a good competition.

However overall I think the players want Jameis to start.
Jameis will be QB#1
 
Actually the OP wasn't about Winston and Hill and everyone's same argument about skills, who is better, etc. It was about LOCKER ROOM.

Players like both QB's, gravitate to both and rally behind and with both. I think a lot of the players WANT to see Winston succeed, if even just getting his career revamped. This is a strong, character locker room and I have wondered if there might be some "siding", especially with the younger players. The vets want whoever gives them the best chance to WIN and will rally around whoever CSP inserts in the game at any time. There will not be discord in the locker room, or it will be snuffed out QUICK. There will be discord if a player is having troubles, but CSP will make a change if that happens, as well. They are both liked, respected and that has been shown publicly. The post is about who the locker room might be siding with on a personal level, not what we all think about each player.
 
Enjoy the season. Sean is just happy to have 2 QBs on the roster he thinks he can win with, and a new QB from the draft Book to work with. I don't think Winston/Hill will wow us enough to want to build with. We are a very good football team on both sides of the ball. We pretend Sean hasn't had yrs to see these guys play and he is still, (post Drew) weighing his options on his HOF replacement QB. Please!!! Sean may not know who our Qb will be after this season. But,I bet he already knows it's not going to be Hill or Winston. We should rejoice that we have a coach smart enough to know that, and smart enough to not say it out loud. Our Qb aspirations are set so much higher than these two guys. I ask, what is Sean's unforgivable mortal sin? Turning the ball over. Both Hill and Winston do it spectacularly, and with regularity. I don't read the room. I read CSP.
 
Enjoy the season. Sean is just happy to have 2 QBs on the roster he thinks he can win with, and a new QB from the draft Book to work with. I don't think Winston/Hill will wow us enough to want to build with. We are a very good football team on both sides of the ball. We pretend Sean hasn't had yrs to see these guys play and he is still, (post Drew) weighing his options on his HOF replacement QB. Please!!! Sean may not know who our Qb will be after this season. But,I bet he already knows it's not going to be Hill or Winston. We should rejoice that we have a coach smart enough to know that, and smart enough to not say it out loud. Our Qb aspirations are set so much higher than these two guys. I ask, what is Sean's unforgivable mortal sin? Turning the ball over. Both Hill and Winston do it spectacularly, and with regularity. I don't read the room. I read CSP.
Yes. Each time I think CSP is starting to push some schemes or maybe plateaued he pulls something out that makes me go, "whoa". Of course, our D played very well when Bridgwater filled in, but CSP schemed a very good offensive game plan those games and each was a different look. When Hill came in, each game had a different tweak in scheme and the Denver game as weird as it was...the whole last minute, night before change of game plan was brilliant. We will see some cool stuff roll out on offense this season at times. There are things he had to work to Drew's strengths which now that he is gone, can work to whoever is at QB's strengths and whether Hill is at QB or not, there is a lot we haven't seen that he will be schemed into. Having a versatile FB again, more dynamic (at least on paper right now) TE, AK, etc. gives so many options. It might not have the look of precision some times, but we will see more "whoa" plays sprinkled through the season on O along with some "oh no" plays! It will be a ride!
 
I hate to burst some Taysom fan bubble but there is no super secret Taysom offense. Sean is gonna tailor his system to fit Hill not transform it completely. It'll still very much be the same system with Brees.

The problematic existence with Hill at QB is that he's an extraordinary low usage% player with high yield results in a multifaceted role. The logical connotation is to raise his usage to fair greater success in the most detailed oriented single position in the game. This is actually false. The longer he stayed in the spotlight... The brighter his flaws came to light. Struggling in the 4th. Unable to read tight zone. Pocket presence and run reads. High time in pocket.

Hill is elite at his current role. He's just not elite at QB. Do you really wanna depend on a QB that's...

Over 30 years old with a long history of injury for 17 games that's expected to take plethora of hits due to his style of play?

It's why I hope that Winston does take the starting job, but I don't see a clear cut starter in either of them. Winston has to earn it. I feel if we are lucky... The best formula to a winning team is if Winston and Hill both take huge leaps. Winston actually becomes a good QB and Hill embrace his position and they take up to 11. Operate Hill more as a transition motion weapon. Get him closer to 60% snap count for the season. Hill is an elite play making threat and a monster in the red zone.

You have Hill on the field... They can't bracket Thomas and Kamara. TD Winston shuttle pass to Hill at the goal line and while he's matched up a CB. TD.

It's about getting your best players on the field. If Winston and Hill are apart of that... We are gonna be super hard to outscore. This is the result we should be hoping for at the moment.
This is the most logical, sensible assessment of the QB situation I've seen on this board. Kudos to you.
 
Based on a conversation I had with a trainer of a saints player early in the week, his comments on Taysom led me to believe that his client (a prominent saints player) wants Jameis to start. He ask me what I think the Saints will do with Jameis this year and I told him I think Taysom will win the job. His comments on Taysom led me to believe the trainer was speaking the words of his client and not of a casual fan. I disagree with his opinion but it did make me feel that the players are in favor of Jameis. Personally I don't care who the players want. I believe Taysom will beat out Jameis in TC.
This is interesting. Is there any specifics you can get into about this. What were the Taysom drawbacks from the trainers perspective?
 

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